22 interviewed me for the BBC. So some occurred -- it 22 A. Yes.
23 occurred before some and it occurred after some. 23 Q. Go to page 17, if you would.
24 Q. All right. So it is your assertion that 24 A. Uh-huh.
25 this single e-mail that you have made reference to 25 Q. At line 4 of transcript of that same
238 240
1 where Paul Cassell says "asks Dershowitz these 1 interview, you said: "She made the whole thing up
2 questions" occurred before your -- your media 2 out of whole cloth. I can prove it by flight
3 appearances and after your media appearances; is 3 records. I can prove it by my travel records."
4 that correct? 4 Did you make those statements?
5 MR. SCOTT: Objection, form, argumentative 5 A. Yes, and they're absolutely true.
6 and repetitious. 6 Q. Okay. I am going to hand you every flight
7 A. It occurred before some of the media 7 record that has been produced in connection with
8 appearances, and it occurred after some of media 8 this litigation.
9 appearances, yes. 9 A. Uh-huh.
10 BY MR. SCAROLA: 10 MR. SCAROLA: Could we mark that as the
11 Q. Did it occur before your first media 11 next composite exhibit, please?
12 appearances? 12 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff
13 A. My first media appearances came as the 13 Exhibit 6.)
14 result of phone calls I received from -- 14 MR. SCAROLA: And mark this as the next
15 Q. That's nonresponsive to my question, sir. 15 composite exhibit, which will be 7.
16 A. -- newspapers -- 16 MR. SCOTT: These are all the flight
17 Q. I didn't ask you anything about what your 17 manuals?
18 first media appearances occurred -- 18 MR. SCAROLA: As far as I know.
19 A. Yes, you did. 19 MR. SCOTT: Okay.
20 Q. -- as a result of. I asked you -- 20 MR. SCAROLA: They're the only ones that
21 MR. SCOTT: Let him ask his question. 21 have been produced in discovery. If there are
22 BY MR. SCAROLA: 22 more, I'm going to be interested to hear about
23 Q. -- whether the c-mail that you claimed to 23 it.
24 have seen was sent before or after your first media 24 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff
25 appearance? 25 Exhibit 7.)
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1 (Discussion off the record.) 1 exonerated by any flight logs that were innocent --
2 THE WITNESS: What's Number 6 then? I'm 2 that were complete and accurate, of course.
3 confused, there were two. 3 Q. So you made the public statements
4 BY MR. SCAROLA: 4 repeatedly that the flight logs would exonerate you
5 Q. Have you ever seen Exhibit Number 6 5 without having examined the flight logs to see
6 before? 6 whether they were accurate or not; is that correct?
7 A. Exhibit Number 6. I don't believe so. It 7 A. Well, I knew -- I knew that --
8 doesn't look familiar to me. 8 Q. Did you say those things without having
9 Q. No? 9 examined the flight logs?
10 A. It does not look familiar to me. 10 A. I said those things having looked at some
11 Q. Did you bother at any time to review 11 of the flight logs at some point in time. But I
12 discovery that was produced by Bradley Edwards and 12 knew for sure that the flight logs would exonerate
13 Paul Cassell responding to requests for information 13 me because I knew I was never on Jeffrey Epstein's
14 that supported the allegations of Virginia Roberts? 14 plane with Virginia Roberts or any other young
15 A. I'm not clear what you're asking. 15 underage girls. So, I knew that to an absolute
16 Q. I want to know — 16 certainty. And I was prepared to say it. I'm
17 A. In which case? In which case are we 17 prepared to say it again under oath here.
18 talking? 18 And if your clients had simply called me
19 Q. This case. This case. 19 and told me they were planning to do this, we
20 A. Right. 20 wouldn't be here today because I could have shown
21 Q. Did you ever bother to review the 21 them in one day that it was impossible for me to
22 discovery produced in this case responding to 22 have had sex with their client on the island, in the
23 requests for all of the information that supported 23 ranch, on the airplanes, in Palni Beach. And they
24 their belief in the truthfulness of Virginia 24 would have, if they were decent and ethical lawyers,
25 Roberts' allegations against you? 25 not filed that.
242 244
1 A. I don't know if I reviewed everything. 1 And there are cases, legal ethics cases
2 But I certainly, in preparation for this deposition, 2 that say that lawyers are obliged to make that phone
3 reviewed some of the documents that were produced in 3 call. Lawyers are obliged to check if it's easy to
4 discovery. But I can't say I reviewed them all. 4 check. Lawyers are obliged to, particularly when
5 Q. Well, having placed such substantial 5 they're making extremely heinous charges against a
6 emphasis during the course of your public 6 fellow lawyer, do very, very, detailed
7 appearances on the flight logs exonerating you, it 7 investigations. And they didn't do that in this
8 would certainly seem logical that one of the things 8 case.
9 that you would want to review would be all of the 9 Q. I will represent to you that I have handed
10 available -- all of the available flight logs, 10 you all of the available flight logs produced in the
11 right? 11 discovery of this case. Could you show me, please,
12 A. No. 12 which of these flight logs exonerates you?
13 MR. SCOTT: Objection, argumentative. 13 A. The absence of evidence is evidence of
14 A. No. 14 absence. None of the flight logs have me on an
15 BY MR. SCAROLA: 15 airplane with Virginia Roberts. None of the flight
16 Q. No? 16 logs have me on an airplane during the relevant
17 A. No. Look, I knew I was never on a plane 17 period of time when Virginia Roberts claims that she
18 with any underage females under any circumstances. 18 had sex with me in the presence of another woman.
19 I knew that. I knew that as certainly as I'm 19 So, the flight logs clearly exonerate ine.
20 sitting here today. So, I knew absolutely that if 20 There's absolutely no doubt about that.
21 the manifests and the flight logs were accurate, 21 Q. Well, the flight logs, in fact, confirm
22 they would, of course, exonerate me because I am 22 that you were in the same places at the saine time as
23 totally, completely, unequivocally innocent of any 23 Virginia Roberts, don't they?
24 of these charges. 24 A. No, they do not.
25 So of course I knew that I would be 25 Q. Do you -- do you deny that they confirm
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1 that you were in the same place at the same time — 1 I would be very anxious to see any timeframes when
2 A. First -- 2 Virginia Roberts claims she was with me on the
3 Q. — as Virginia Roberts? 3 island, claims she was with me on -- at the ranch,
4 MR. SCOTT: Let him ask the question. 4 claims she was with me on the airplanes, claims she
5 THE WITNESS: Okay. 5 was with one in Palin Beach. And they will all
6 MR. SCOTT: Then you answer the question. 6 conclusively --
7 And Mr. Scarola will try to, you know, keep the 7 Q. You forgot --
8 emotion down, I'm sure, so we can get through 8 A. -- prove --
9 this with less acrimony between everybody here. 9 Q. — New York. Didn't you mean New York
10 A. Your client has adamantly refused, as well 10 also?
11 as the lawyer -- 11 A. No, I did not mean New York --
12 BY MR. SCAROLA: 12 Q. Oh, okay.
13 Q. No, sir, that's nonresponsive to my 13 A. -- because New York is very different. I
14 question. 14 was, in fact, in New York for large periods of time.
15 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute. 15 I was not, in fact, on the island during the
16 BY MR. SCAROLA: 16 relevant timeframe. I was not in the airplane in
17 Q. My question is: Do you deny that the 17 the relevant timeframe. I was not in Jeffrey
18 flight logs corroborate that you were in the same 18 Epstein's Palm Beach home in the relevant timeframe.
19 place at the same time as Virginia Roberts? 19 And I was once in the ranch but under circumstances
20 A. So the question includes the word "time" 20 where it would have been absolutely impossible for
21 and, therefore, I must answer in this way. Your 21 me to have had any contact with her.
22 client -- 22 So if you will give me the timeframe, I
23 Q. How to build a watch? 23 will be happy to answer your question. But without
24 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute, you're cutting 24 timeframes, that question is an absolutely
25 him off. He's been trying to answer the 25 inappropriate question. And the answer to it is no.
246 248
1 question. 1 Q. Well, Mr. Dershowitz, it might be
2 A. Your client has adamantly refused, and her 2 inappropriate if you had not repeatedly made the
3 lawyers and your clients have refused to give me any 3 public statements that the flight logs exonerate
4 timeframes, any timeframes when your client claims 4 you.
5 that she had improper -- falsely claims, 5 A. They do.
6 perjuriously claims that she had improper sexual 6 Q. So what I am attempting to find out is the
7 encounters with me. 7 basis upon which you can contend that the flight
8 So how can you possibly ask me a question 8 logs exonerate you if you are now telling us you
9 that includes the word "timcframcs" when your client 9 don't even know when it is that you are alleged to
10 has refused -- when Virginia Roberts has refused to 10 have been in the same place at the same time as
11 give any timcframcs? How can it be possible that 11 Virginia Roberts.
12 the flight logs show me being in the same time and 12 A. Okay.
13 same place with her when she has refused to describe 13 Q. So how -- how can you make both those
14 any of the times that she claims to have been in 14 statements?
15 thosc places? 15 A. Very simple, because I know the timeframe
16 So the answer to the question is 16 that Virginia Roberts, A, knew Jeffrey Epstein. And
17 categorically no, sir. 17 during that timeframe, I can conclusively prove that
18 BY MR. SCAROLA: 18 I was never on Jeffrey Epstein's island where she
19 Q. What is the question that you are 19 claimed to have sex with me. That the only time I
20 answering no to? 20 was at the ranch was with my wife, with the Ashe
21 A. Whether or not the timeframe shows that I 21 family, with my daughter, the house was under
22 could have been in the same place at the same time 22 construction, we just simply stayed outside the
23 as your client. Absolutely not. Because we don't 23 house and looked around. That the manifests show I
24 know what times your client -- now, if you know 24 was never on Jeffrey Epstein's plane during that
25 that, you should have produced them in discovery and 25 period of time. And the manifests show that I never
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1 flew down to Palm Beach during that relevant period 1 Q. Which of the manifests are you referring
2 of time. 2 to when you claim what you have claimed about the
3 So 1 have a timeframe not that was 3 manifests, Exhibit Number 6 or Exhibit Number 7?
4 provided by your client but that was provided by the 4 A. I can only tell you that I have reviewed
5 externalities of the case. And that timeframe 5 the manifests and they show, to me, that I was never
6 coupled with the manifests clearly exonerate me 6 on Jeffrey Epstein's airplane during the relevant
7 without any doubt. 7 period of time. That's all I can tell you now.
8 Q. 1 want to make sure that I understood what 8 I'm not in a position where I look at all
9 you just said. "I never flew down to Palm Beach 9 these documents now. If you point me to any
10 during the relevant timeframe"? 10 particular trip that shows that I was on Jeffrey
11 A. I never flew down and stayed at Jeffrey's 11 Epstein's plane, I would be happy to respond to
12 house in Palm Beach during that relevant period of 12 that.
13 time. 13 Q. There are two separate collections of
14 Q. Okay. So you want to withdraw the 14 documents purporting to be flight manifests for
15 statement that you never flew down to Palm Beach — 15 Jeffrey Epstein's plane. When you made the public
16 MR. SCOTT: Objection. 16 statements that you made regarding the flight logs
17 BY MR. SCAROLA: 17 or manifests exonerating you, were you referring to
18 Q. — during that relevant period of time -- 18 Exhibit Number 6 or Exhibit Number 7?
19 A. Let me be -- 19 A. I have no recollection as to which
20 MR. SCOTT: Objection. 20 particular exhibits, which are fonned for purposes
21 BY MR. SCAROLA: 21 of the legal case, I had reviewed. I know I had
22 Q. — and what you want to say is, "I never 22 reviewed the manifests. Not only had I reviewed the
23 flew down to Palm Beach and stayed at Jeffrey 23 manifests, but others reviewed the manifests and
24 Epstein's house during that timeframe period," 24 have conclusively told me that their review of the
25 correct? 25 manifests shows that I was right.
250 252
1 MR. SCOTT: Objection, argumentative -- 1 Q. Who else —
2 A. Let me be -- 2 MR. SCOTT: Avoid any attorney-client
3 MR. SCOTT: -- mischaracterization. 3 communications either with Ms. -- you know,
4 A. Let me be clear. A, I never flew down on 4 with your current lawyers, please.
5 Jeffrey Epstein's plane during the relevant period 5 THE WITNESS: Okay.
6 of time. 6 BY MR. SCAROLA:
7 BY MR. SCAROLA: 7 Q. Who told you that they had reviewed the
8 Q. Flew down to where? 8 manifests and they confirmed your position?
9 A. To Palm Beach or anywhere else. I was 9 MR. SCOTT: Objection, work product.
10 never on Jeffrey Epstein's plane, according to the 10 MR. SCAROLA: Well, you know, Mr. Scott,
11 flight manifests and according to my own records, 11 he can't have it both ways. He can't insert
12 during the relevant period of time. 12 into the record the gratuitous statements that
13 I have independent records of my travel 13 he inserts into the record regarding others
14 which demonstrate that I was not in Jeffrey 14 having corroborated his inaccurate testimony,
15 Epstein's house during the relevant period of time. 15 and then refuse to tell us who those othcrs
16 And -- but the -- talking about the manifests, the 16 arc. It constitutes a waiver of whatever
17 manifests conclusively prove that I was never on the 17 privilege might exist.
18 airplane during the relevant period of time. 18 MR. SCOTT: He can -- he can tell who they
19 So I don't know how you can claim that the 19 arc. I'm just saying he can't go into
20 manifests show that I was with Virginia Roberts 20 communications with them.
21 during the relevant period of time. They do not do 21 MR. SCAROLA: Well, he's already said what
22 that. And if you would testify under oath to that, 22 the communication was. The communication was
23 I think you could be subject to pretty -- pretty 23 these manifests prove your position.
24 scathing cross examination. So your statement is 24 MR. SCOTT: And he's answered that because
25 categorically false, sir. 25 based on his review of them, Mr. Scarola.
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA: 1 MR. INDYKE: Objection. This is Darren.
2 Q. Who told you that the manifests confirm 2 Anything that relates to your conversations
3 the accuracy of your public statements? 3 with Jeffrey --
4 MR. SCOTT: If it involves lawyer-client 4 THE REPORTER: He's going to have to speak
5 privilege, don't answer it. 5 up.
6 THE WITNESS: Okay. 6 MR. SCOTT: You're going to have to speak
7 BY MR. SCAROLA: 7 up a little bit more, Counsel.
8 Q. You're refusing to answer? 8 MR. INDYKE: Objection. This is Darren
9 A. No, I would like -- 9 Indyke. Anything that Alan might have to say
10 MR. SCOTT: Instruct you not to answer. 10 to that, to the extent they are covered under
11 A. -- to answer. But I've been instructed 11 conversations with Jeffrey Epstein, privileged
12 not to answer. I would like to answer. 12 under attorney-client privileges as well as
13 You've made a statement -- 13 common interest privileges.
14 MR. SCOTT: There's no question pending. 14 MR. SCOTT: Do you understand?
15 THE WITNESS: But he made a statement -- 15 THE WITNESS: I do.
16 MR. SCOTT: But there's no question 16 BY MR. SCAROLA:
17 pending, sir. 17 Q. To which your response was: "Sure, sure,
18 BY MR. SCAROLA: 18 certainly I have been his lawyer and I did speak to
19 Q. What does it mean to make something up out 19 him about it. I wanted to make sure that his memory
20 of whole cloth? 20 and mine coordinated about when I was at his island.
21 A. It means that Virginia Roberts and your 21 He was able to check. I was able to check. 1
22 clients -- 22 checked with my friends who went with me."
23 Q. No, sir, I haven't asked you anything 23 Did you make that answer to that question?
24 about Virginia Roberts. I haven't asked you 24 A. Yes.
25 anything about my clients. 25 Q. Disclosing the contents of your
254 256
1 1 want to know what the words "making 1 communication with Jeffrey Epstein, correct?
2 something up out of whole cloth" mean. 2 A. I disclosed that I had spoken to him to
3 A. l said thosc words in the context of 3 find out whether he had any records of when I was on
4 Virginia Roberts. 4 his island. And, yes.
5 MR. SCOTT: That's -- that's fine. Go 5 MR. INDYKE: Again, this is Darren Indyke.
6 ahead. 6 Jeffrey does not waive any attorney-client
7 BY MR. SCAROLA: 7 privileges here.
8 Q. What do the words mean? 8 BY MR. SCAROLA:
9 A. That there was absolutely no basis for 9 Q. Well, the reason why you were able to
10 Virginia Roberts' claim that she had any sexual 10 answer that question and discuss with the press what
11 contact with me. That the story was entirely false. 11 Jeffrey Epstein was telling you was because you
12 I don't know where the metaphor derives about whole 12 weren't his lawyer at that time, right?
13 cloth, but certainly that's the common 13 A. No, I was his lawyer at that time. Pm
14 understanding. And I repeat under oath that 14 still his lawyer.
15 Virginia Roberts made up the entire story about 15 Q. Oh, what were you representing him on
16 having sexual contact with me out of whole cloth. 16 then --
17 Q. During the course of the same interview 17 A. The ongoing --
18 that we have been referencing with Hata Gorani — 18 Q. — that is, on January' --
19 for the record, that's H-A-L-A, G-0-R-A-N-1. 19 MR. SCOTT: Whoa.
20 A. What page? 20 BY MR. SCAROLA:
21 Q. Page 19. 21. Q. -- on January 5,2015?
22 You were asked: "I'm wondering, have you 22 A. The ongoing --
23 spoken to Jeffrey Epstein about this since these 23 MR. INDYKE: My objection stands.
24 allegations came out in this suit in the United 24 MR. SCOTT: You can answer what you were
25 States? Have conversations happened there?" 25 representing him on, I think.
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1 A. The ongoing issues -- 1 Q. — the last 10 years?
2 MR. SCOTT: But nothing about 2 A. I would say 15 --
3 communications. 3 Q. Last 15 --
4 A. Right. The ongoing issues relating to the 4 A. -- years.
5 NPA, which continue to this day. And I regard 5 Q. -- how about the last 20 years?
6 myself as his lawyer basically on all those -- all 6 A. I have -- I don't think so.
7 those issues. 7 Q. Okay.
8 BY MR. SCAROLA: 8 A. As I stand here today, I have no
9 Q. So, when the pleadings were filed in the 9 recollection of ever being in New Mexico except to
10 Crime Victims Rights Act regarding your conduct in 10 visit the Ashes in January of 2000.
11 relationship to Virginia Roberts and Jeffrey 11 I'm 77 years old. I've lived a long life.
12 Epstein, you were and still are his lawyer in the 12 It is certainly possible that at some earlier point
13 Crime Victim's Rights Act case; is that correct? 13 in my life -- I mean, I've been in most of the
14 A. I certainly am bound by lawyer-client 14 states. But I have no recollection of ever being in
15 privilege and communications, yes. 15 New Mexico.
16 Q. Okay. You go on to say in that same 16 And I can tell you unequivocally the only
17 interview: "Only once in my life have I been in 17 time I was ever at Jeffrey Epstein's ranch was that
18 that area," referring to New Mexico.
18 one time with my wife with the Ashes, with my
19 A. Yes. 19 daughter. And we only stayed there for an hour and
20 Q. "Only once in my life did my travel 20 the house was not completed. It was under
21 records show I was in New Mexico."
21 construction. And I certainly did not have any
22 A. Uh-huh.
22 sexual encounter or any encounter with Virginia
23 Q. Is that an accurate statement?
23 Roberts during that visit.
24
25
A. To the best of my knowledge. I have no
recollection of being in New Mexico other than
24
2 5
MR. SCAROLA: Move to strike the
unresponsive portions of the answer.
258 260
1 during that visit to the Ashes, which was not during 1 MR. SCOTT: We don't agree on that point,
2 the -- the narrower timeframe. 2 so let's go ahead.
3 The narrower timeframe, remember, is 3 MR. SCAROLA: It's of any help, I can
4 Virginia Roberts meets Jeffrey Epstein in the late 4 agree that you don't agree to any of my
5 summer, the summer just before she's turning 16, of 5 objections.
6 1999. She says she didn't commence having sexual 6 MR. SCOTT: No, that's not true. I mean,
7 activities with any of Epstein's friends until nine 7 I'm trying to work with you, sir.
8 months later. That would put it in March or April 8 I have to tell you, this -- this is
9 of 2000. This visit occurred in January of 2000. 9 obviously one of the most acrimonious
10 It's the only time I recall having been in 10 depositions I've sat through in my 40 plus
11 New Mexico. 11 years because of the personalities involved
12 Q. Okay. I want to be sure now. You're not 12 here and because of the personal issues. And
13 just saying that you were only at Jeffrey Epstein's 13 it's quite difficult for everybody in this
14 ranch in New Mexico once; you are confirming your 14 room.
15 statement on national television that you have only 15 MR. SCAROLA: I agree.
16 been in New Mexico one time? 16 MR. SCOTT: And all I'm saying, and my
17 A. My recollection right now is that I was 17 client is -- who's 77, is trying to defend his
18 only there once. I have no -- no other recollection 18 life. And I understand you're trying to
19 of -- it's conceivable when I was a very young man, 19 vigorously -- and you're a great lawyer --
20 I could have been there. But I have no recollection 2 0 represent your clients. And it's -- this is
21 of having been there. It certainly -- certainly I 21 not the typical deposition. And we're trying
22 haven't been there recently. And during the 22 our very best, both of us.
23 relevant time period, I know I haven't been there. 23 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. And you're
24 Q. "Recently" means — 24 right, you and 1 do agree on something.
25 A. Fifteen -- 25 MR. SCOTT: As you said yesterday, more
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1 often than we usually say. 1 A. Where? Where? Can you point to that?
2 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, sir. 2 BY MR. SCAROLA:
3 BY MR. SCAROLA: 3 Q. Well, I'm asking you, sir, based upon your
4 Q. In interviews on January 4 and January 5, 4 superb memory whether you remember having said -
5 you claim to have completed the necessary work to 5 MR. SCOTT: No, we're going to do --
6 identify documents exonerating you within an hour 6 BY MR. SCAROLA:
7 after learning of the accusations that were made, 7 Q. -- on Jan --
8 correct? 8 MR. SCOTT: He's going to take a moment to
9 A. I don't remember having said that. But 9 review the transcript and -- and that's -- any
10
11
within a minute, I had clear knowledge that every
document in the world would exonerate me because I
3.0
11
witness is entitled to do that. So why don't
we take a break, hell review transcript and
12 knew for absolute certainty that every aspect of her 12 we'll come back? We've been going an hour --
13 allegation was totally false. That's why I 13 MR. SCAROLA: Because I haven't asked him
14 challenged the other side to produce videos, to 14 a question about the transcript.
15 produce photographs. I knew that there could be no 15 MR. SCOTT': You've asked --
16 evidence inculpating me because I knew I was 16 MR. SCAROLA: I'm asking him a question
17 innocent. So I knew that all of my records would 17 about his recollection.
18 prove that. 18 MR. SCOTT: Based upon what he said in the
19 Facts are facts. And I just wasn't in any 19 transcript.
20 contact or any sexual contact with Virginia Roberts, 20 MR. SCAROLA: No, I'm asking him whether
21 and I knew with absolute certainty that the facts 21 he has a recollection of having made public
22 would completely exonerate me. And if your clients 22 statements that within an hour, he had gathered
23 had just called me, at the courtesy of simply 23 the documents that proved his innocence,
24 calling me, I would have been able to point them to 24 exonerated him.
25 Professor Michael Porter of the Harvard Business 25
262 264
1 School. I would have been able to -- to alert them 1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 to the Ashes. I would have been able to tell them 2 Q. Do you remember having made those
3 that I keep little black books which have all of my 3 statements?
4 travel information. Although they were in the 4 A. I do not, but its true. I was able to
5 basement of Martha's Vineyard, I would have been 5 gather documents literally within an hour. I was
6 happy to go up and get them. 6 able to call Tom Ashe. He was able to access his
7 If they had just simply called me, I would 7 daughter's journal notes that I had taught his
8 have been able to persuade them without any doubt 8 daughter's class. I was able to find out where my
9 that these allegations were false. If they needed 9 other documents were.
10 any persuading because I believe, as I sit here 10 My wife made some phone calls immediately.
11 today, that they knew they were false at the time -- 11 We called the Canyon Ranch. We called and
12 certainly should have known, but I believe knew they 12 determined the dates of when I was in Florida. We
13 were false at the time that they leveled them. 13 called the Porters. We very, very, very quickly
14 Q. My question related to your gathering 14 were able to gather information that conclusively
15 documents that you claim exonerated you -- 15 would prove that she was lying about me having had
16 A. That's right. 16 sex with me on the island, in the ranch,
17 Q. -- and your public statements were that 17 particularly those two I was able to prove
18 within an hour, you -- 18 conclusively.
19 A. Can you -- 19 And when a woman lies deliberately and
20 Q. -- had gathered the documents -- 20 willfully about two instances where she in great
21 MR. SCOTT: Listen to the question. 21 detail claims she had had sex, I think you can be
22 BY MR. SCAROLA: 22 clear that you should discount any other -- any
23 Q. -- you had gathered the documents that 23 other false allegations.
24 exonerated you, correct? 24 MR. SCOTT: We've been going for an hour.
25 MR. SCOTT: You can refer. 25 Let's take a break for a few minutes. Then we
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3. have another hour. 1 and then explained it but now you have it
2 MR. SCAROLA: I'm almost ready to take a 2 directly answered. So we're -- we're at a
3 break. 3 brcak point.
4 MR. SCOTT: Okay. 4 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you.
5 MR. SCAROLA: Could you read back the last 5 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The
6 question, please? 6 time is approximately 11:01 a.m.
7 First of all, I move to strike the 7 (Recess was held from 11:01 a.m. until 11:23 a.m.)
8 =responsive speech. 8 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going back on the record.
9 And now read back the last question, if 9 The time is approximately 11:23 a.m.
10 you would. 10 BY MR. SCAROLA:
11 (Requested portion read back as follows:) 11 Q. When did you last travel from outside the
12 THE REPORTER: "Do you remember having 12 State of Florida to arrive in Florida?
13 made those statements?" 13 A. The day before yesterday, 1 think.
14 Do you want me to read prior to that? 14 Q. And where did you travel from?
15 MR. SCAROLA: No, that's fine. That's the 15 A. New York.
16 question that I asked. 16 Q. When were you last in Boston, in the
17 BY MR. SCAROLA: 17 Boston area?
18 Q. Is the answer yes? 18 A. About two weeks ago.
19 A. I don't remember specifically. I do 19 Q. So, if anyone had represented that you
20 generally remember having said that your clients 20 were going to be traveling from Boston to Florida
21 could have easily discovered conclusive proof that 21 this past weekend, that would have been a
22 Virginia Roberts was lying about me and that I 22 misrepresentation; is that correct?
23 had -- because I knew, of course, it was false -- 23 A. I have no idea what you're talking about.
24 MR. SCAROLA: Tom -- 24 Q. Well, I'm talking about your personal
25 A. -- been able to uncover such proof. 25 travels. If anyone had represented that you were
266 268
1 MR. SCAROLA: That has nothing to do with 1 going to travel from Boston to Florida and canceled
2 the question I asked -- 2 travel arrangements from Boston to Florida this past
3 MR. SCOTT: Let's take -- let's take a 3 weekend, that would have been a misrepresentation,
4 break like I suggested and we'll come back and 4 correct?
5 then you can ask your question and -- okay? 5 A. I have no idea what you're talking about.
6 MR. SCAROLA: Well, while the question is 6 I'm sorry.
7 pending, I would like an answer to the question 7 Q. Well, what is it that you don't understand
8 before we break. 8 about that question? Either you were in —
9 MR. SCOTT: Did you answer the question? 9 A. The basis --
10 THE WITNESS: I thought I did. 10 Q. — Boston and were planning on traveling
11 A. But what -- could you repeat the question? 11 from Boston to Florida this past weekend or the last
12 I'll try to answer it in a yes or no if I can. 12 time you were in Boston was two weeks ago, so you
13 BY MR. SCAROLA: 13 couldn't have been planning —
14 Q. Did you make the statement that within an 14 A. I --
15 hour of learning of these allegations, you had 15 Q. — on traveling from Boston to Florida.
16 gathered documents that completely exonerated you? 16 A. I was actually in Boston -- now that I
17 A. I don't recall those specific words -- 17 checked any calendar, I was actually in Boston --
18 Q. Thank you, sir. 18 here, 1 have -- aha. It says -- and my calendar
19 A. -- but the truth -- 19 says I was in Boston. Then it says leave for
2 0 MR. SCOTT: That's it, and I think he 20 Florida, but that got changed. Yes, that got
21 indicated that before. 21 changed, right.
22 MR. SCAROLA: That would be very helpful 22 Q. May I see that, please?
23 if we said that and then we stopped and we can 23 A. No, this is my personal calendar.
24 take a break. 24 Q. Yes, I'm sorry, but if you refer to
25 MR. SCOTT: He previously had said that 25 anything to refresh your recollection --
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1 A. I have -- 1 Cassell had done in the course of their
2 Q. -- during the course of the deposition,1 2 investigation of the credibility of the accusations
3 am permitted to examine it. 3 made by Virginia Roberts against you?
4 A. I have lawyer-client privileged 4 A. Well, first and foremost, the most
5 information in here, so I can't give it to you. I 5 important piece of infonnation I had was my firm and
6 can give it to you in a redacted form. I have a 6 complete knowledge and memory that I had never had
7 quote from David Boies in here, which I'm sure -- 7 any sexual contact with Virginia Roberts ever under
8 MR. SCOTT: Don't — 8 any circumstances or any other underage girls. So I
9 A. — nobody is going to want to sec -- 9 knew --
10 MR. SCOTT: We'll make a copy and give it 10 Q. The question I'm asking, sir --
11 to you. 11 A. -- this information --
12 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. Would you hand 12 Q. -- focuses on what knowledge you had
13 it to your counsel, please? 13 regarding what Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell did
14 MR. SCOTT: On that note, hold on to that. 14 in the course of their investigation of the
15 TFIE WITNESS: But I need that back. 15 credibility of the accusations against you made by
16 MR. SCOTT: Of course. Don't worry. 16 Virginia Roberts?
17 MR. SIMPSON: Hold on to it. 17 A. That was the first and most important bit
18 MR. SCOTT: That's why I gave it to him 18 of infonnation; namely, that I couldn't have done it
19 because I'd lose it. 19 and didn't do it. So I knew for sure that they
20 BY MR. SCAROLA: 20 could not have conducted any kind of valid
21 Q. Before January 21,2015, what information 21 investigation.
22 did you have regarding what Bradley Edwards and Paul 22 Second, I knew from -- that they also had
23 Cassell had gathered in the course of investigating 23 a letter from Mr. Scarola that said that multiple
24 the accuracy of Virginia Roberts' accusations 24 witnesses had placed me in the presence of Jeffrey
25 against you? 25 Epstein and underage girls and I knew that
270 272
1 A. Well, first, I knew that anything they 1 Mr. Scarola's letter was a patent lie. And they had
2 gathered -- 2 access to that letter and that information.
3 MR. INDYKE: Objection to the extent that 3 I also knew they were relying on
4 requires -- 4 depositions of two house people of Jeffrey Epstein.
5 MR. SCOTT: Whoa. 5 And I've read these two depositions. And I'm sure I
6 MS. McCAWLEY: -- you to disclose anything 6 knew of other -- other information as well.
7 you gave -- 7 I knew that they had stated -- I knew that
8 THE COURT REPORTER: I can't hear. 8 they had stated publicly, or you had stated publicly
9 I'm sorry, Mr. Indyke, can you repeat your 9 on their behalf as a witness, that you had stated
10 objection? 10 publicly that you had tried to depose me on these --
11 MR. SCOTT: Can you say that a little 11 on this subject. I knew that that was a blatant lie
12 louder? 12 and unethical conduct because nobody ever tricd to
13 MR. INDYKE: Darren Indyke. I would 13 depose me on this subject.
14 object to the extent that your answer would 14 I had never been accused, nor did I have
15 disclose anything you -- you obtained or 15 any knowledge that anybody had ever falsely accused
16 learned or any knowledge you gained in 16 me of having any sexual encounters. And I had a
17 connection with your representation of Jeffrey 17 great deal of infonnation about the paucity or
18 Epstein. 18 absence of any legitimate investigation. And I also
19 MR. SCOTT: Do you understand that 19 knew that they hadn't called me, they hadn't tried
20 instruction? 20 to call me, there was no record of an attempt to
21 THE WITNESS: I do, yes. 21 call me or c-mail me. My c-mail is available on my
22 Could you repeat the question? 22 wcbsite. My phone number is available on my
23 BY MR. SCAROLA: 23 website.
24 Q. Yes, sir. I want to know what information 24 The most basic thing they could have done,
28 you had regarding what Bradley Edwards and Paul 25 as courts have said, when you're accusing somebody
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1 of outrageous, horrible, inexcusable misconduct, at 1 your assertion that the testimony of these two
2 least call the person and ask them if they can 2 individuals completely exculpates you.
3 disprove it before you file a -- a statement. Not 3 A. Uh-huh.
4 even asking for a hearing on it, not even basically 4 Q. The following question was asked of --
5 seeking to prove it, just -- just putting it in a 5 MR. SCOTT: What you arc reading from?
6 pleading as if scrolling on a bathroom stall. 6 MR. SCAROLA: I'm reading from the
7 So, yes, I had -- I had a great basis for 7 deposition transcript.
8 making that kind of statement and I repeat it here 8 BY MR. SCAROLA:
9 today. And we will find out in depositions what 9 Q. The following question was asked of —
10 basis they actually had. And I'm anxiously awaiting 10 MR. SCOTT: The deposition transcript --
II Mr. Cassell's deposition this afternoon. 11 BY MR. SCAROLA:
12 MR. SCAROLA: Move to strike the 12 Q. -- of Mr. Juan — Mr. Juan Alessi and --
13 non-responsive portion of that answer. 13 MR. SCOTT: Let me object to the -- first
14 Could I have a standing objection to 14 of all, let me object to this format because he
15 unresponsive -- 15 has not been provided a part of the deposition.
16 MR. SCOTT: Sure. 16 You're reading portions from the deposition --
17 MR. SCAROLA: -- answers? That would be 17 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, I am.
18 helpful. Thank you. I appreciate that. That 18 MR. SCOTT: -- which can be taken out of
19 will save us -- 19 context. He has not had the ability to review
20 MR. SCOTT: Absolutely. No, any time. 20 the deposition. This is improper.
21 MR. SCAROLA: -- save us some time. 21 MR. SCAROLA: Okay.
22 MR. SCOTT: Thank you, sir. 22 MR. SCOTT: Cross-examination.
23 BY MR. SCAROLA: 23 BY MR. SCAROLA:
24 Q. The one portion of what you just said that 24 Q. Do you recall the following questions
25 directly responded to my question was you knew in 25 having been asked of Mr. Alessi and the following
274 276
1 early January of 2015 that Bradley Edwards and Paul 1 answers have been given during the course of this
2 Cassell had the sworn testimony of two -- did you 2 deposition which you contend completely exonerates
3 refer to them as house -- 3 you?
4 A. House people. 4 "Question: Do you have any recollection
5 Q. House staff? 5 of VR, referring to Virginia Roberts, coming to
6 A. /louse staff. 6 the house when Prince Andrew was there?
7 Q. House staff of Jeffrey Epstein's -- 7 "Answer: It could have been, but I'm not
8 A. That's right. 8 sure.
9 Q. — correct? 9 "Question: When Mr. Dershowitz was
10 And those two individuals are Juan Alessi 10 visiting --
11 and Alfredo Rodriguez, correct? 11 "Answer: Uh-huh.
12 A. That's right. 12 "Question: -- how often did he come?
13 Q. And you, in fact, were aware of the 3.3 "Answer: He came pretty -- pretty often.
14 existence of that testimony from shortly after the 14 I would say at least four or five times a year.
15 time that the testimony was given, weren't you? 15 "Question: And how long would lie stay
16 A. Well, I was certainly aware of it at the 16 typically?
17 time I made these statements. 17 "Answer: Two to three days.
18 Q. Yes, sir. But you also knew as far back 18 "Question: Did he have massages sometimes
19 as 2009, when this sworn testimony was given, that 19 when he was there?
20 you were specifically identified by name in the 20 "Answer: Yes. A massage was like a treat
21 sworn testimony of Jeffrey Epstein's house staff 21 for everybody. If they wanted, we call the
22 members, right? 22 massage, and they get -- excuse me — and they
23 A. I was identified by name in a manner that 23 have a massage.
24 completely exculpated me, yes. 24 "Question: You said that you set up the
25 Q. Okay. Well, let's -- let's take a look at 25 massage tables, and would you also set up the
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1 oils and towels? 1 is a third-year student at Harvard, were all there
2 "Answer: Yes, ma'am. 2 with me. That was the only time that I stayed over
3 "Question: And did you ever have occasion 3 more than one night. And I never stayed even one
4 to go upstairs and clean up after the massages? 4 night during the relevant timeframe.
5 "Answer: Yeah, uh-huh. 5 But most importantly, he gives no
6 "Question: Did you ever find any 6 timeframe. And clearly his reference to the sex
7 vibrators in that area? 7 toys is a reference to the part of the house that 1
8 "Answer: Yes. I told him yes. 8 was never permitted in and never entered.
9 "Question: Would you describe for me what 9 Q. What is the question that you think you
10 kinds of vibrators you found? 10 were answering?
11 "Answer: I'm not too familiar with the 11 A. Whether --
12 names, but they were like big dildos, what they 12 MR. SCOTT: He was explaining to you
13 call the big rubber things like that 13 exactly why he felt that that was
14 (indicating). And I used to go and put my 14 inappropriatc, which is exactly what you asked
15 gloves on and pick them up, put them in the 15 him.
16 sink, rinse it off and put it in Ms. Maxwell — 16 MR. SCAROLA: No, it is not.
17 Ms. Maxwell had in her closet, she had like a 17 MR. SCOTT: Well, it is my recollection,
18 laundry basket. And you put laundry in. She 18 so I don't know --
19 have full of those toys." 19 MR. SCAROLA: Well, thcn --
20 Is that testimony that exonerates you, 20 MR. SCOTT: I think he was defending --
21 Mr. Dershowitz? Is that what you were referring to? 21 MR. SCAROLA: Let me try the same question
22 MR. SCOTT: Let me -- objection to the 22 over again.
23 form, improper cross examination by taking 23 MR. SCOTT: I think he was defending
24 excerpts out of depositions of witnesses. 24 his -- his position.
25 25 THE WITNESS: Right.
278 280
1 BY MR. SCAROLA: 1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. Is it your contention that that testimony, 2 Q. The question was: Is that part of the
3 under oath, of your friend, Mr. Epstein's staff 3 time that you claim exonerates you?
4 person, exonerates you? 4 A. Well, I think if you read the whole
5 A. First, a little background. Mr. Alessi 5 testimony, it clearly exonerates me and I think that
6 was fired for theft of material from Mr. Epstein, so 6 part of the testimony in no way inculpates me and no
7 Mr. Alessi was not on a friendly basis with Jeffrey 7 reasonable person reading that could use that as a
8 Epstein. 8 basis for making allegations that I had sexual
9 Second, the description of the dildos and 9 encounters or misconduct with Virginia Roberts.
10 sex toys clearly refers to the area of the house 10 So, when -- if that's the best testimony
11 that I was never in, the area of Ms. Maxwell's room, 11 that your unprofessional clients relied on, then
12 rather than the area of the room that I stayed in. 12 clearly that exonerates me.
13 Third, he gives no timeframe for the 13 Again, the absence of evidence is evidence
14 visits. 14 of absence. And the very idea that this is seen as
15 And, fourth, he certainly didn't in any 15 some basis for concluding that I had sexual
16 way confirm that I was there while Virginia Roberts 16 encounters with -- with Virginia Roberts, why wasn't
17 was there. His answer was simply that l was there 17 he asked did he ever sec ine have a massage by
18 from time to time. He's wrong about that. During 18 Virginia Roberts? Did he ever see me have a sexual
19 the relevant timeframe, I was never in the house. 19 encounter with Virginia Roberts? Did he ever go to
20 And even taking outside the relevant 20 the room I was staying in and find any sex toys?
21 timeframe, the only time I was in the house for more 21 The answers to all those questions, if
22 than one day was when my family, my wife, my son, my 22 truthful, would be no.
23 daughter-in-law, my then probably seven or 23 Q. What was Mr. Alessi's motive against you?
24 eight-year-old granddaughter, who just graduated 24 You've told us he was fired by Jeffrey Epstein, so
25 Harvard, and my probably four-year-old grandson, who 25 he may have had some motive against Mr. Epstein.
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1 What was his motive against you? 1 A. Yes.
2 A. 1 was Jeffrey Epstein's friend and lawyer 2 Q. A man who would never undertake to advance
3 and, in fact -- well, I can't get into this. But I 3 the cause of a client whom he believed to be
4 can say this, I gave advice -- 4 incredible, right?
5 MR. SCOTT: Be careful about anything 5 A. Yes. And a man who told me and a man
6 involving -- 6 who --
7 THE WITNESS: Okay. 7 MR. SCOTT: That's it.
8 MR. SCOTT: -- Mr. Epstein, please. 8 A. Okay. And a man who believes I'm
9 A. He could easily have believed that I was 9 innocent.
10 one of the causes of his firing. 10 BY MR. SCAROLA:
11 BY MR. SCAROLA: 11 Q. You know that Bob Josefsberg would never
12 Q. So, he was -- he may have been angry at 12 file charges on behalf of a client alleging that she
13 you because you assisted in getting him fired? 13 was lent out by Jeffrey Epstein for purposes of
14 A. It's -- 14 sexual abuse while she was a minor to academicians
15 MR. SCOTT: Objection, 15 unless he absolutely had confidence that those
16 mischaracterization. 16 statements were true --
17 A. Its conjecture. It's possible. But in 17 MR. SCOTT: Let me object --
18 any event, even -- 18 BY MR. SCAROLA:
19 BY MR. SCAROLA: 19 Q. — right?
20 Q. It's conjecture, is that what you were 20 MR. SCOTT: -- that this is completely
21 about to say? 21 irrelevant to the issues in this case.
22 A. I'm saying I have -- I don't know what he 22 Whatever Mr. Josefsberg thinks has nothing to
23 was thinking, but there is a basis for him believing 23 do with this lawsuit. This is all your effort
24 that. But most -- most important, even if you take 24 to try to put Josefsberg into this case to try
25 everything he says as true, which its not, its 25 to give some justification to your position.
282 284
1 exculpatory because it has no suggestion that I ever 1 A. I'll answer that question.
2 had any sexual encounter with Virginia Roberts. 2 BY MR. SCAROLA:
3 And if I were a lawyer reading that -- 3 Q. Thank you.
4 MR. SCOTT: Its okay? 4 A. And I also know Bob Josefsberg and know
5 A. -- I certainly would not base this heinous 5 that he would never maintain a friendship, as he has
6 accusation on that flimsy read. 6 with me, if he believed that I was one of the,
7 BY MR. SCAROLA: 7 quote, academicians --
8 Q. You know the context in which that 8 Q. Well, how about —
9 deposition was taken, don't you? 9 A. -- with whom --
10 A. I don't recall it as Pm sitting here 10 Q. -- answering my question --
11 today. 11 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute. No, no, no.
12 Q. Do you remember that the lawsuit in which 12 A. You're going to let me finish.
13 that deposition was taken was a lawsuit in which 13 BY MR. SCAROLA:
14 Virginia Roberts was being represented by Bob 14 Q. I know I'm going to go, but I don't have
15 Josefsberg? 15 to like it —
16 A. No. 16 MR. SCOTT: Yeah, but --
17 Q. You know Bob Josefsberg, don't you? 17 BY MR. SCAROLA:
18 A. We -- we were classmates at law school. 18 Q. — when you're not being responsive to the
19 Q. You know Bob Josefsberg to be an extremely 19 questions that are being asked.
20 ethical, highly professional and extraordinarily 20 MR. SCOTT: Yeah, but you're
21 well-respected lawyer, right? 21 interjecting --
22 A. Absolutely, yes. 22 BY MR. SCAROLA:
23 Q. Absolutely? 23 Q. And --
24 A. Yeah. 24 MR. SCOTT: You're interjecting questions
25 Q. A man of impeccable honesty and integrity? 25 that are irrelevant utilizing Bob Josefsberg's
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1 relationship with him and he has an ability to 1 the people who the FBI had put on the -- the list.
2 justify and explain his position in response -- 2 I just don't know what his responsibility was.
3 MR. SCAROLA: If its responsive to the 3 I can say with confidence that he would
4 question. 4 only act ethically and would, A, not represent --
5 A. Its responsive. And as far as the 5 not make any false statements the way your clients
6 filibustering is -- 6 made them, and that I wish your clients had the
7 BY MR. SCAROLA: 7 ethics of Bob Josefsberg.
8 Q. Do you remember what the question is? 8 Q. You then agree that if Bob Josefsberg
9 A. -- is concerned, I was here -- 9 advanced the claims that I have described in a
10 Q. Do you remember what the question was? 10 complaint on behalf of a client, he would not have
11 A. Yes. Yes. 11 done so unless he believed those allegations to be
12 Q. What is the question? 12 true, having conducted a fair and reasonable
13 A. The question is -- no, why don't you 13 investigation, correct?
14 repeat the question. 14 MR. SCOTT: Objection, asked and answered
15 Q. Yes, sir. 15 several times.
16 A. So -- 16 A. I don't know the answer to that question
17 Q. You know that Bob Josefsberg would not 17 because I don't know the context in which he made
18 advance allegations on behalf of a client that that 18 these arguments. All do know is that he never
19 client had been lent out by Jeffrey Epstein to 19 would maintain a friendship with me if he believed
20 satisfy the sexual desires of friends of Jeffrey 20 in any way that I was one of the people that she had
21 Epstein, including academicians, unless Bob 21 accused.
22 Josefsberg believed those allegations to be true, 22 BY MR. SCAROLA:
23 right? 23 Q. Did Alfredo Rodriguez, another one of your
24 A. I believe that -- I know that Bob 24 friend's staff persons, have a motive to lie against
25 Josefsberg would never maintain a friendship with 25 you?
286 288
1 me, as he has, if he believed that I was one of 1 A. Alberto Rodriguez --
2 those academicians. Bob Josefsberg knows that I was 2 Q. No, sir, Alfredo Rodriguez.
3 not one of those academicians, and the inference of 3 A. Alfredo Rodriguez, I never knew him by
4 your question is beneath contempt, sir. 4 name. He was, of course, there out -- well outside
5 Q. Could we try to answer the question now? 5 of the timeframe of the alleged events in this case.
6 A. The answer is that Bob Josefsberg would 6 And so anything that he would be able to testify to
7 never maintain a friendship with me if he believed 7 would bear no relationship whatsoever to the -- the
8 that there was any possibility that I was among the 8 allegations here.
9 academicians who she was accusing of sexual 9 He was criminally prosecuted, to my
10 misconduct. I do not believe that she ever accused 10 memory, for having stolen material and turned it
11 me of sexual misconduct to Bob Josefsberg, to the 11 over to Bradley Edwards is my recollection. And as
12 FBI, to the U.S. attorney, or even, sir, to you and 12 the result of that clearly had a motive to lie. And
13 Bradley Edwards, as she says in 2000, I think, '11. 13 the same with Mr. Alessi, clearly would have a basis
14 I think she made up this story on the eve of the 14 for believing that I may have played a role as
15 filing in 2014. 15 Jeffrey Epstein's lawyer in seeking to do harm to
16 Q. You do agree that Bob Josefsberg would not 16 him.
17 have advanced the claims that he advanced if he did 17 But again, there's nothing in
18 not have confidence that they were true, correct? 18 Mr. Rodriguez's testimony which is in any way
19 A. 1 have no idea what he believed or knew at 19 inculpatory of me. I think he has me sitting and --
20 the time. I would say this: I know Bob Josefsberg 20 and reading a book and drinking a glass of wine.
21 is an extraordinarily ethical lawyer. Idol* know 21 Q. In the presence of young women?
22 what his responsibilities were in the case. I don't 22 A. No.
23 know whether his responsibilities were to make those 23 Q. No?
24 kinds of judgments or whether his responsibility was 24 A. I don't --
25 simply to make sure that money was paid to each of 25 Q. Do you --
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1 A. -- believe that. 1 that testimony?
2 Q. -- recall the following testimony -- 2 A. Yes.
3 A. It wouldn't be true if he said it. 3 MR. SCOTT: Objection. This is totally
4 Q. Yes, sir. Well, do you recall the 4 improper cross examination of a witness by
5 following testimony having been given by Mr. Alfredo 5 trying to use a deposition. The only purpose
6 Rodriguez in a deposition that was taken on 6 of doing this is to interject this into the
7 August 7, 2009? 7 record, which has no relevance and would not be
8 "Question: Mr. Rodriguez, you stated last 8 admissible at trial. And in any case, he never
9 time that there were guests at the house, 9 actually has my client doing any of the things
10 frequent guests from Harvard. Do you remember 10 that you've accused him of.
11 that testimony? 13. Go ahead, let's go ahead and do it.
12 "Answer: Yes, ma'am. 12 Answer the question. Answer the question.
13 "Question: Was there a lawyer from 13 MR. SCAROLA: He did.
14 Harvard named Alan Dershowitz? 14 A. Yes, I remember that.
15 "Answer: Ycs, ma'am. 15 MR. SCAROLA: He said yes.
16 "Question: And are you familiar with the 16 A. Yes, I remember that, yes.
17 fact that he's a famous author and famous 17 BY MR. SCAROLA:
18 lawyer? 18 Q. And do you know why it was that back in
19 "Answer: Yes, ma'am. 19 19 -- excuse me, back in 2009, August of 2009, four
20 "Question: How often during the six 20 and a half years before you allege that this story
21 months or so that you were there was 21 about you was being made up out of whole cloth, that
22 Mr. Dershowitz there? 22 lawyers representing Jeffrey Epstein's victims,
23 "Answer: Two or three times. 23 including Katherine Ezell, E-Z-E-L-L front Bob
24 "Question: And did you have any knowledge 24 Josefsberg's office, who had filed the complaint
25 of why he was visiting there? 25 alleging that you had -- excuse me, that Virginia
290 292
1 "Answer: No, ma'am. 1 Roberts had been lent out for sexual purposes to
2 "Question: You don't know whether or not 2 academicians, were asking specific questions about
3 he was a lawyer acting as a lawyer or whether 3 you? Do you know why it was in 2009 they were doing
4 he was there as a friend? 4 that?
5 "Answer: 1 believe as a friend. 5 A. l have no idea that it happened. And I
6 "Question: Were there also young ladies 6 imagine that they had a list of every academic that
7 in the house at the time he was there? 7 was in the house. Probably included --
8 "Answer: Yes, ma'am. 8 MR. SCOTT: I want to object to this whole
9 "Question: And would those have included, 9 procedure because you're taking pieces out of
10 for instance, Sarah Kellen, Nada Marcinkova? 10 the record and not reading other pieces that
11 "Answer: Yes, ma'am. 11 totally absolve my client. For example,
12 "Question: Were there other young ladies 12 there's testimony by him that says --
13 there when Mr. Dershowitz was there? 13 MR. SCAROLA: Is this an objection?
14 "Answer: Yes, ma'am. 14 MR. SCOTT: Yes, it's a statement into the
15 "Question: Do you have any idea who those 15 record just like you're putting into the
16 young women were? 16 record. There's -- I want to show this to my
17 "Answer: No, ma'am. 3.7 client and refresh his memory as to some other
18 "Question: Were there any of these — 18 testimony by this witness --
19 excuse me. Were any of these young women that 19 MR. SCAROLA: There's no question pending
20 you have said came to give massages? 20 as to what you can -- as to what you can
21 "Answer: Yes, ma'am." 21 refresh your client's memory. What you are
22 Do you recall that testimony having been 22 doing is coaching him.
23 given -- 23 MR. SCOTT: No, lin not.
24 A. Yes. 24 MR. SCAROLA: Improperly.
25 Q. — and those answers having been given to 25 MR. SCOTT: And you are improperly reading
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1 excerpts out of a deposition to try to imply 1 Do you remember that testimony having been
2 something when there's other parts that totally 2 given?
3 arc inconsistent with that. And if you're 3 A. I assume that when your clients used the
4 going to do that, then he has the ability under 4 transcript as a basis for their false conclusion
5 our rules to review the entire transcript of 5 that I was guilty, they read the whole transcripts,
6 the deposition and that's what I'm permitting 6 not just the --
7 him to do, just like when we're in court. 7 BY MR. SCAROLA:
8 MR. SCAROLA: What I am doing, 8 Q. Every word.
9 Mr. Scott -- what I am doing, Mr. Scott -- 9 MR. SCOTT: Don't interrupt him.
10 MR. SCOTT: Have you read that now, sir? 10 BY MR. SCAROLA:
11 MR. SCAROLA: -- is reviewing the evidence 11 Q. You don't need to assume that. I will
12 that was relied upon by Bradley Edwards and by 12 stipulate they read every word.
13 Paul Cassell in corning to the conclusion that 13 MR. SCOTT: Mr. Scarola, he's speaking.
14 the allegations that had been made by Virginia 14 You don't have a right to do this.
15 Roberts were, in fact, credible allegations. 15 A. And if you read every word, you will see
16 MR. SCOTT: And I'm -- 16 that it's totally exculpatory, that I have no idea
17 MR. SCAROLA: Because your own client has 17 whether there were any young women in one part of
18 acknowledged that this is information that was 18 the house when I was in another part of the house.
19 available to both him and to them back in 2009. 19 It's completely consistent with my testimony that I
20 MR. SCOTT: And what I am doing is showing 20 have never seen any underage women. Let's see.
21 him portions of the same deposition that 21 And if you read the whole transcript,
22 totally take a different position from this 22 you'll see, I think:
23 witness from what you have read, so that this 23 "Was Dershowitz ever there when one of the
24 record is a complete record and not a partial 24 woman gave a massage?
25 record with your inference only. And I feel 25 "I don't remember that.
294 296
1 that that's totally appropriate. If we were in 1 "Were you in -- were you in any way
2 a courtroom, a judge would permit him to do it. 2 attempting in your response to imply that
3 So you have your position and I have mine. 3 Mr. Dershowitz had a massage by one of these
4 MR. SWEDER: Can we have the witness read 4 young ladies?
5 that? 5 "I don't know, sir.
6 BY MR. SCAROLA: 6 "You have no knowledge?
7 Q. Do you recall the following testimony 7 "No, sir.
8 having been given in that same deposition? 8 "And you certainly weren't implying that
9 "Question: All right. This is follow-up 9 that occurred; you just have no knowledge,
10 to questioning by Ms. Ezell. Ms. Ezell asked 10 correct?
11 you about Mr. Dershowitz being present in 11 "Answer: I don't know."
12 Mr. Epstein's home, and I think you said -- I 12 And I would hope that your clients would
13 think you said Mr. Epstein and he and 13 be reading the whole thing in context, unlike what
14 Mr. Dershowitz were friends? 14 you've tried to do to try to create a false
15 "Answer: Yes. 15 impression that this testimony in any way exculpates
16 "Question: She also, I think, asked was 16 me.
17 Mr. Dershowitz ever there when one of the young 17 I have to say if this is what they relied
18 women who gave a massage was present in the 18 on, my confirmation of their unethical and
19 home. 19 unprofessional conduct has been strongly
20 "Answer: I don't remember that. 20 corroborated by that and you're helping my case.
21 "Question: That's where l want to clear 21 BY MR. SCAROLA:
22 up. Is it your testimony that Mr. Dershowitz 22 Q. Would it have been reasonable for Bradley
23 was there when any of the women came to 23 Edwards and Paul Cassell to have relied upon the
24 Mr. Epstein's home to give a massage? 24 detailed reports of Palm Beach police department?
25 "Answer: Yes." 25 A. I don't know. I don't know what the Pahn
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1 Beach police department says. 1 this.
2 Q. You never read those reports? 2 A. Excuse me one second.
3 A. I don't know which reports you're 3 MR. SCOTT: You know, you think this is
4 referring to. 4 funny and I think this man's -- and I think
5 Q. All of the reports about Jeffrey Epstein. 5 this man's --
6 MR. SCOTT: Asked and answered yesterday 6 MR. SCAROLA: I think its improper for
7 on this whole line. 7 you to be coaching the witness in the middle of
8 A. I probably did not read all the reports on 8 examination. If you think that there's
9 Jeffrey Epstein. I'm sure I've read some of them. 9 something that needs to be brought out, you do
10 I do not recall --
10 that in cross examination. You don't feed him
11 MR. SCOTT: Be careful about any work -- 11 information that you want him to be reading in
12 attorney-client privilege. 12 the middle of my examination of this witness.
13 THE WITNESS: Right.
13 MR. SCOTT: No. But it's also true that
14 A. I don't remember my name coming up. I was
14 under our rules, when you read portions of a
15 the lawyer during that period of time.
15 deposition, he has the ability to read other
16
17
18
19
BY MR. SCAROLA:
Q. To the extent that Bradley Edwards and
Paul Cassell relied upon detailed reports from the
Palm Beach police department in order to assess the
16
17
18
19
portions of the deposition which clarify the
answers. That's done in every courtroom on
every time a witness -- you have selected
portions of it that are not accurate based on
20 credibility of Virginia Roberts, would it be
20 other portions and I am having him review them
21
22
23
24
25
reasonable for them to rely upon police reports?
A. I would hope that they would rely on all
the police reports, including the ones that showed
that she was involved in criminal actions, including
the ones that would show that she took money as an
21
22
23
24
25
since you did not offer him the deposition to
review.
MR. SCAROLA: And that's what you do --
MR. SCOTT: And I think that's totally
proper --
298 300
1 adult to provide sexual services to people. 1 MR. SCAROLA: -- in cross examination. It
2 I would hope they would look at all the 2 is --
3 reports, not just selected portions of those 3 MR. SCOTT: -- to do. No --
4 reports. 4 MR. SCAROLA: -- improper.
5 Q. Would that include the reports of the 5 MR. SCOTT: No.
6 Federal Bureau of Investigation? 6 MR. SCAROLA: There's no question pending
7 A. I would hope so. 7 as to which that's relevant. But let's take a
8 Q. Would that include the information 8 look at what you're showing him.
9 provided by the U.S. Attorney's Office? 9 MR. SCOTT: Surc. Why don't you read it
10 A. I would sure hope so, and I could tell you 10 into the record?
11 that the -- 11 THE WITNESS: I've read it.
12 Q. Would that include — 12 MR. SCOTT: Read it into the record so
13 A. Let one just say that the U.S. Attorney's 13 that Mr. Scarola is advised.
14 Office has told me unequivocally that my name never 14 A. "Okay. When Alan Dershowitz was in the.
15 came up in any context of any accusation against me 15 house, I understand you to say that these local
16 during the negotiations. 16 Palm Beach girls would come over to the house
17 Q. Is this part of your work product that 17 while he was there, but you're not sure if he
18 you're waiving right now? 18 had a massage from any of these girls?
19 MR. SWEDER: No, no. 19 "Exactly.
20 A. My conversation with Jeffrey Slotnan is not 20 "And what would he do while these girls
21 work product. 21 were in the house?
22 MR. SCOTT: Here's a -- 22 "He would read a book with a glass of
23 BY MR. SCAROLA: 23 wine by the pool, stay inside.
24 Q. What is the work product — 24 "Did he ever talk to any of the girls?
25 MR. SCOTT: Excuse me. Please review 25 "I don't know, sir.
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1 "Certainly he knew they were there? 1 A. Let me answer. "Rely" connotes to me that
2 "I don't know, sir." 2 they would place a heavy emphasis on that to the
3 That's the best you can do? That's really 3 exclusion of other things and that it would be
4 the best you can do? You think a professional 4 enough. And so my answer is, yes, they certainly
5 lawyer would make these allegations based on "I 5 should have read all the reports. They certainly
6 don't know, sir." 6 should have read all the transcripts. But they also
7 MR. SCAROLA: Is there a question pending, 7 should have called me, they should have made other
8 Mr. Scott? 8 inquiry, and they should have made sure that they
9 MR. SCOTT: He's reading -- you asked him 9 read all of these depositions and reports in
10 what he was reading -- 10 context.
11 MR. SCAROLA: Yes, sir. 11 And if you're implying that there are FBI
12 MR. SCOTT: -- from and I had him publish 12 reports that in any way inculpate me, that's
13 it. 13 inconsistent with the information I have from Former
14 MR. SCAROLA: Yeah, I know, and then he 14 Chief of Assistant Jeffrey Sloman, who was prepared
15 went on to make a speech. So I know I don't 15 to file an affidavit saying that that wasn't the
16 have to do it, but I'm compelled to move to 16 case but was prevented from doing so by the Justice
17 strike the unresponsive speeches. 17 Department.
18 MR. SCOTT: And I consider these to be a 18 MR. SCOTT: It's about noon now. So I
19 response to the interrogation that you did 19 guess were heading -- were wrapping this up?
20 taking excerpts improperly and not having the 20 MR. SCAROLA: Not quite yet.
21 entire record in front of him, which he's 21 BY MR. SCAROLA:
22 entitled to do to make that the record is 22 Q. You do agree that the allegations that
23 complete. And I intend to protect him in that 23 Virginia Roberts made against Prince Andrew were
24 way. 24 well-founded allegations, correct?
25 25 A. I have absolutely no idea. I've met
302 304
1 BY MR. SCAROLA: 1 Prince Andrew on a number of occasions in a public
2 Q. So we have agreed that it was reasonable 2 context. He came and spoke in my class at Harvard
3 for Bradley Edwards and Paul Cassell, in assessing 3 law school. The dean then had a dinner in his -- or
4 the credibility of Virginia Roberts, to rely upon 4 lunch in his honor. I was then invited to a dinner
5 police reports, FBI reports, U.S. Attorney's Office 5 at the British Consulate.
6 information, and information from the Palm Beach 6 I've never seen him in the presence of any
7 County State Attorney's Office, correct? 7 underaged women, so I have absolutely no basis for
8 A. No. 8 reaching any conclusion whatsoever about
9 Q. No? 9 Prince Andrew.
10 A. No. It would not be enough for them to do 10 Q. So you don't know one way or another
11 that -- 11 whether those allegations are true or false?
12 Q. I didn't ask you whether it was enough. 12 A. Neither do you. Nobody would know except
13 A. You said it was -- 13 two people, I imagine. But I don't know. Of course
14 Q. I asked you: Would it reasonable for them 14 not.
15 to rely upon those sources of information in 15 Q. All right.
16 assessing the credibility of Virginia Roberts? 16 A. But I presume --
17 A. Not alone, not without looking at -- 17 Q. You say you have never seen him --
18 Q. That wasn't my question. 18 A. -- people innocent --
19 A. -- other sources of information. 19 Q. — in the presence of any underaged women,
20 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute. 20 but you've seen photographs of him in the presence
21 BY MR. SCAROLA: 21 of an underaged woman, correct?
22 Q. Well, what he's relying upon — 22 A. I have, yes.
23 MR. SCOTT: You're not the judge here. 23 MR. SCAROLA: May we mark this as the next
24 Let him -- ask a question and let him answer it 24 numbered exhibit, please.
25 and not cut him off, please. 25 A. And I want to note --
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1 THE REPORTER: Hold on. Hold on. 1 THE WITNESS: Excuse me, I need to a take
2 A. -- the absence of any -- 2 a very quick bathroom break.
3 MR. SCOTT: She can't take it down. 3 MR. SCAROLA: That's fine.
4 THE WITNESS: Sorry. 4 THE WITNESS: Probably be two minutes or
5 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff 5 less than two minutes.
6 Exhibit 8.) 6 VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The
7 THE REPORTER: It's okay. Go ahead. 7 time is approximately 12:03 p.m.
8 A. And I want to note the absence of any 8 (Sidebar held off the record.)
9 photograph of me with Virginia Roberts. 9 MR. SCAROLA: While we're waiting, let me
10 BY MR. SCAROLA: 10 mark the ncxt numbered exhibits as well. That
11 Q. That's the photograph that you were 11 will save us some time.
12 referring to? 12 MR. SCOTT: What is this?
13 A. I've seen this photograph in the 13 MR. SCAROLA: Her calendar, his calendar.
14 newspapers. 14 MR. SCOTT: Who's calendar is this,
15 Q. Yes, sir. And the woman on the far right 15 Carolyn's?
16 of that photograph, who is that? 16 MR. SCAROLA: Okay. This is Numbcr 10.
17 A. Ghislaine Maxwell. 17 MR. SCOTT: Carolyn's calendar.
18 Q. The woman that you and your friend Jeffrey 18 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff
19 Epstein have traveled with repeatedly, correct? 19 Exhibit 10.)
20 A. No. A woman who I may have traveled with 20 MR. SCAROLA: This is Number 11.
21 on two or three occasions. I can't think of more 21 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff
22 times than that that I traveled with her, but its 22 Exhibit 11.)
23 possible. But not -- I wouldn't say repeated 23 MR. SCAROLA: This is Number 12.
24 occasions. I've -- 24 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff
25 Q. Well -- 25 Exhibit 12.)
306 308
1 A. -- probably been in her presence fewer I. BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 than a dozen timcs. 2 Q. Mr. Dershowitz, I have handed you a
3 Q. I'm going to hand you -- 3 composite exhibit that is marked as Number 9.
4 A. But just to be clear, what I knew about 4 A. Yes.
5 Ghislainc Maxwell was that she was the daughter of a 5 Q. The first document in that composite is a
6 prominent British publisher -- 6 page from --
7 Q. I haven't asked you what you knew about 7 MR. SCOTT: Here's Number 9.
8 Ghislaine Maxwell. I asked you -- 8 BY MR. SCAROLA:
9 A. Well, you askcd -- 9 Q. — is a page from your wife's calendar; is
10 Q. -- whether or not you recognized her in 10 that correct?
11 the photograph? 11 A. Yes.
12 A. Ycs. Ycs. 12 MR. SCOTT: Take a moment to review the
13 Q. Thank you very much, sir. 13 exhibit, please.
14 I'm going to hand you an airport codes log 14 A. Yes, it looks like -- I'm looking at the
15 that identifies the airports that are identified by 15 first page. It looks like my wife's -- my wife's
16 abbreviations in the case -- in case that is of some 16 handwriting, yes.
17 assistance to you in answering the next series of 17 BY MR. SCAROLA:
18 questions that I'm about to ask you. 18 Q. And the second page is another page from
19 A. Right. 19 your wife's calendar; is that correct?
20 Q. And I'm going to hand you this composite 20 A. Looks like it, yes.
21 exhibit, which we will mark as the next numbered 21 Q. And —
22 composite. 22 MR. SCOTT: Take the time to review it
23 A. Uh-huh, right. 23 before you answer questions, please.
24 (Thereupon, marked as Plaintiff 24 A. Right.
25 Exhibit 9.) 25
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA: 1 December.
2 Q. And can you determine from the calendar 2 Q. One shows the subsequent two months and
3 entries here where your wife is during the period of 3 the --
4 time that's covered by these calendar entries? 4 A. Okay.
5 A. 1 would have to look at a particular 5 Q. — other one shows --
6 entry. If it describes where she is, yes. 6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. Well, tell me where she is. 7 Q. -- the preceding and following month,
8 A. What day? 8 correct?
9 MR. SCOTT: Which one? What point? 9 A. Ycs, that does look like it's December of
10 BY MR. SCAROLA: 10 2000, ycs.
11 Q. The period covered by this calendar 11 Q. Okay, sir. So look at the calendar and
12 between December 7 and December 13. 12 tell me where it appears your wife is during this
13 A. What year? 13 period of time.
14 Q. You know what, I can't tell you what year 14 A. The whole period of time?
15 it is from these calendars. So you tell me. 15 MR. SCOTT: Please read the exhibit, all
16 I suggest to you that this is a calendar 16 the pages, thoroughly, so that you have a full
17 from December of 2000, since the next two months at 17 context.
18 the top of the calendar are January 2001 and 18 A. It says, A.D. in Boston. That means I was
19 February 2001. So let's assume that since it is a 19 in -- in Boston.
20 page from a calendar that appears to be December of 2 0 It says Charleston, Ncw York. It says
21 2000, that it's December of 2000. 21 book fair. It says book fair. It says A.D. in
22 That would be a reasonable conclusion, 22 Boston.
23 wouldn't it? 23 It then says the Halbreiches arrive.
24 A. I have no idea. 24 They -- they were probably our guests.
25 Q. You don't know? 25
310 312
1 A. I don't know. I mean, I don't know -- you 1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 said you don't -- you can't tell what the year is, 2 Q. Your guests at home in Cambridge,
3 so -- 3 Massachusetts, right?
4 Q. Well, I'm telling — 4 A. No, I don't know. I don't know.
5 A. -- I can't tell what the year is. 5 Halbreiches arrive.
6 Q. — you that it appears to be December 2000 6 And I can't really tell from here where
7 because the next two months at the top of the 7 Carolyn is. McDonalds -- let's see, this is 2000
8 calendar are January of 2001 and February of 2001. 8 and what year? 2001. 2000. Yeah, yeah.
9 A. I only see -- I'm sorry, were probably 9 So tell me what you're looking for. I'll
10 looking at different things. I see November 2000, 10 try to --
11 December 2000. I don't see January or anything like 11 Q. I want to know where your wife was during
12 that. Maybe you can show them to me. Oh, it's on 12 this period of time if you can tell from the
13 the first page. 13 calendar entries.
14 Q. First page, yes, sir. 14 A. Well, she may have been in -- there's
15 A. So it's in reverse order. 15 something about Charleston. There's something about
16 Yeah, so the pages are in reverse order. 16 New York. There's something about me being in
17 The first page says on top January 2001, 17 Boston. I really can't tell much beyond that.
18 February 2001 and the second page says 18 Q. Okay. So you don't know one way or
19 November 2000, December 2000, yeah. 19 another from these calendar entries where your wife
20 Q. So it appears we're looking at 20 was during this period of time; is that correct?
21 December 2000, correct? 21 A. I can't tell that from this entry, no.
22 A. When were looking at which page? When 22 Q. What we can tell from the entry in the
23 we -- 23 bottom right-hand corner --
24 Q. Both pages. 24 MR. SCOTT: Which page?
25 A. Well, one is January/February and one is 25 A. Which page?
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1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. Of the first page of this composite is
3 that there is a notation that says Alan Dershowitz
4 11:45 a.m., New York City, right?
5 A. Eleven -- A.D. 11:45 and then there's a
6 word that I can't read.
7 Q. How about a.m.?
8 A. Oh, 5:00 a.m., New York City, yes.
9 Q. Okay. Thank you, sir.
10 And the next page, where did — where did
11 your wife have opera instructions?
12 A. I have no idea. We go to the opera in
313
13 Boston, we go to the opera in New York, we go to the
14 opera in Florida. We do a lot -- a lot of opera. I
15 don't know what "opera instructions" means.
16 Maybe it would be best if you asked my
17 wife about these things. It's her calendar.
18 Q. I -- I intend to, sir, but --
19 A. Sure.
20 Q. -- these are calendars that you produced
21 as part of the evidence that you contend exonerates
22 you. So, I assumed that you had some knowledge of
23 the meaning of these pages.
24 A. No.
25 Q. But I may be wrong.
1 BY MR. SCAROLA:
2 Q. And you would appear in New York --
3 A. Well, no --
4 Q. — for those Court TV appearances --
5 A. I would appear --
6 Q. -- on a regular basis, correct?
7 A. I would appear wherever I was. So when I
8 was in New York, I appeared in New York, but they
9 would do it by remote when I was in a different
315
10 city. And I clearly did some remotes for Court TV.
11 Q. In fact, you took an apartment in New York
12 for purposes of convenience to facilitate your
13 New York Court TV appearances, correct?
14 A. Totally false.
15 Q. Did you have an apartment in New York
1.6 during this period of time in December of 2000?
17 A. I had an apartment for -- I've had an
18 apartment in New York for 30 -- 30 years or more.
19 But I certainly didn't take an apartment for
20 purposes of Court TV, no.
21 Q. On Tuesday, December n, the entry is
22 1:30, Jeff, correct?
23 A. Right. Yeah.
24 Q. And that's a reference to Jeffrey Epstein,
25 correct?
1 A. We have --
2 Q. So you're telling me that you don't know
3 where she was and that's --
4 A. We just -- we just gave you everything we
5 had --
6 MR. SCOTT: We provided hundreds and
7 hundreds of pages. You're picking out one.
8 BY MR. SCAROLA:
9 Q. Let's go -- let's go to the next page, if
10 we could, please, the third page in this composite.
11 A. The third, okay. Third, okay.
12 Q. And can we agree that this is a calendar
13 from December of 2000?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Can we agree it's your calendar from
16 December of 2000?
17 A. That's right, yeah.
18 Q. And can we also agree that during this
314
19 period of time, you were making regular appearances
20 in New York on Court TV?
21 MR. SCOTT: Review the document before you
22 answer the question, please.
23 A. It says 12/30, Court TV, yes. There was a
24 period of time where I had a contract with Court TV
25 and I would appear when they asked me to, yeah.
1
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316
A. I don't -- I don't know.
Q. Well, what other Jeff might it be?
A. 1 know -- I know many, many Jeffs.
Q. Tell me which other Jeffs it might have
been a reference to --
A. I have no idea.
Q. -- on this calendar page.
A. I just have no idea. I would be
speculating.
Q. During the same period of time on
December 12 when there's a calendar entry that
reflects 1:30, Jeff, we know from the flight logs
that Jeffrey Epstein traveled on December 11 from
Palm Beach International Airport to Teterboro
Airport, which is the private plane facility that
services the New York Metropolitan area.
A. I have no idea.
You don't know?
A. No, I have no idea whether he was on that
plane. 1 haven't seen the flight log.
Q. Well, I'm calling your attention to the
flight log. It's the next page.
A. It's the next page here?
Q. Yes, sir.
A. Okay.
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1 Q. December 11, 2000, PBI to Teterboro,
2 passengers, Jeffrey Epstein --
3 A. Wait a second. I have to find it.
4 MR. SCOTT: Well, let him -- let him read
5 the exhibit.
6 A. What -- what's the date?
7 BY MR. SCAROLA:
8 Q. December 11.
9 A. December 11. Yes, 1 see that.
10 Q. Palm Beach International Airport to
317
11. Teterboro?
12 A. Right, yeah.
13 Q. Passengers, Jeffrey Epstein?
14 A. Right.
15 Q. GM, a reference to Ghislaine -- excuse me,
16 Ghislaine Maxwell.
17 A. Uh-huh.
18 Q. And ET and Virginia, right?
19 A. That's what it says, yes, sir.
20 Q. And then we see three of the same four
21 passengers leaving the New York area.
22 A. Uh-huh.
23 Q. To fly to another destination three days
24 later on December 14, correct?
25 A. Yes.
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319
that, but that you were in New York at the same time
Jeffrey Epstein --
A. And that Carolyn --
Q. — and Virginia were in Ncw York and you
were --
A. And that Carolyn arranged for a massage.
Q. -- having a massage.
A. And that my wife arranged for a massage.
Q. No, 1 didn't say that at all, sir?
MR. SCOTT: Well, that's what he's saying
that the record reflects.
A. The record --
MR. SCOTT: Don't cut him off.
A. -- reflects that Carolyn -- Carolyn always
wanted me to have massages because she thought it
would relax me. ldon't like massages particularly,
but when Carolyn arranged massages, almost always we
had them together at the same time. We would have
the same masseuse, sometimes a man, sometimes a
woman, come to the house and give us massages
together.
The idea that my wife would arrange for me
to have a massage with an underage girl for sexual
purposes is so bizarre and absurd as to defy any
kind of credibility, but go on.
318
1 Q. And let's look at the next page of your
2 wife's diary for December 13, the period of time
3 when the flight log shows Jeffrey Epstein and
4 Virginia in New York --
5 A. Uh-huh.
6 Q. -- at the same time when it would appear
7 that you were in New York. And at the bottom of
8 this calendar, Wednesday, December 13, A.D.,
9 massage, right?
10 A. 10:00 a.m. it says? What is it?
11 Q. It says 10, 10-A.D. massage?
12 A. Yeah.
13 Q. Okay.
14 Let's go to the next composite.
15 A. I don't have -- there's another page after
16 that. Oh, the next composite.
17 Q. Yes, sir.
18 A. Yeah.
19 Q. Composite Number 10.
20 A. Uh-huh. But -- but I just want to be
21 clear. So you're saying Carolyn was with me in
22 Ncw York during that period of time.
23 Q. No, I'm not saying that at all, sir. I
24 suggest that when we take a close look at the
25 calendar, it's going to reveal something other than
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BY MR. SCAROLA:
Q. Yes. Thank you very much, sir.
A. Go on.
Q. 1 intend --
MR. SCOTT: Since you're both smiling,
there seems to be some humor that I'm missing
here. I guess I --
too.
MR. SCAROLA: Well, I'm missing the humor
BY MR. SCAROLA:
Q. Lees go to Composite Exhibit Number 10.
A. Yeah.
Q. The first page of that composite exhibit
320
is a photocopy of pages from your personal calendar
in January 2001, correct?
A. That's right, yes.
Q. Another Court TV appearance on January 11,
correct?
A. January 11.
Q. Yes, sir. Thursday, January 11, entry in
the left-hand column, Court TV.
A. Entry on -- yes, January -- I see it as --
I see it on January 12. Idon't see it on
January l 1, but...
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3 2 1. 323
1 BY MR. SCAROLA: 1 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute. Let him get to
2 Q. I'm sorry, maybe it is January 12, but 2 it.
3 some time between the Ilth and 12th, either on the 3 A. 2 of the composite. Page 2, and what-
4 11th or on the 12th, it's Court TV, correct? 4 what day are we on?
5 A. No, no, no. You're just totally -- 5 MR. SWEDER: Do we even have it?
6 Q. It's the 12th — 6 MR. SCOTT: I'm sorry. Excuse me. Do we
7 A. -- wrong -- its the 12th, yes. 7 have copies of this exhibit?
8 Q. Okay. Good. Thank you. 8 MR. SCAROLA: I've given you copies of
9 A. Its clearly stated on the 12, yeah. 9 everything --
10 Q. Okay. And then on Friday, the 19th, a 10 THE WITNESS: Were these produced in
11 week later, another Court TV appearance, correct? 11 discovery?
12 A. 19th. Yes. 12 MR. SCOTT: I assume.
13 Q. Okay. And on the 26th on Friday, 13 A. Okay. What are we up to? What page?
14 another Court TV appearance, correct? 14 BY MR. SCAROLA:
15 A. That's what it says, yes. These were 15 Q. Page 2 of Composite Exhibit Number 10.
16 all -- 16 MR. SCOTT: Okay. Now, stop.
17 Q. During this period of time -- 17 BY MR. SCAROLA:
18 MR. SCOTT: Whoa. Let -- let him finish 18 Q. Tuesday, the 16th.
19 his answer. 19 MR. SCOTT: What year arc we talking about
20 A. These are all scheduled appearances. 1 20 now?
21 assume that I did them. These -- these were -- when 21 MR. SCAROLA: 2001, the only year covered
22 they requested ine to -- to do them, I would do them, 22 in this composite exhibit.
23 yes. 23 A. Yeah, dimmer foreign policy Epstein, that
24 BY MR. SCAROLA: 24 was dinner we had at Jeffrey Epstein's house with a
25 Q. Okay. And it looks like you're appearing 25 group of very distinguished foreign policy experts,
1 on a scheduled basis every Friday during this period 1 yes.
322 324
2 of time? 2 BY MR. SCAROLA:
3 A. I don't think that was right. Yeah,1 3 Q. All right, sir. Lees go to the next
4 don't think that was right. I think that they 4 page. I've just focused on this period of time in
5 called me when they wanted me. And it may have been 5 January 2001 and on Friday, January 12 —
6 several Fridays in a row, but I think it depended on 6 A. So we're going back to Friday, January 12.
7 breaking news at the -- 7 Yeah.
8 Q. What is "scheduled appearance" -- 8 Q. Your wife is in Cambridge, correct?
9 MR. SCOTT: Well, wait a minute. Let him 9 A. No, I don't think so. My wife was living
10 finish his questions [sic]. 10 in New York with me at the time. 1 don't see any
11 A. It would depend very much on whether there 11 record of her being in Cambridge.
12 was a particular trial because I would be the 12 She was -- we were living together in
13 commentator on the trial, along with other lawyers. 13 New York at NYU downtown. I was a visiting scholar.
14 And there were some days when there were trials and 14 Having been appointed by John Sexton of NYU to be a
15 some days when there weren't and I would be 15 visiting scholar, we were there for the year. And
16 available because t was living in New York at the 16 my wife was with me during the year. Our daughter
17 time. 17 was in school in New York. She went to Little Red
18 BY MR. SCAROLA: 18 Schoolhouse in New York. And we had -- our life was
19 Q. On Tuesday, the 16th, there is an entry 19 in New York for a period of one year.
20 that says Epstein, right? 20 Q. And on Friday, January 12, you had another
21 A. On Tuesday, the l6th? 21 massage, right?
22 Q. Yes, sir. 22 A. I don't see anything on my record that --
23 A. Where are we? Which calendar now? 23 Q. Massage, A.D.?
24 Q. Page 2. Page 2 of the composite, Tuesday, 24 A. We must be looking at the different pages.
25 the 16th, Epstein. 25 Q. Friday, January 12, page 4 --
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325 327
1 A. Who's -- 1 A. Uh-huh.
2 Q. — of Composite Exhibit 10. 2 Q. Okay. Or from 3:30 to 4:15, that would be
3 MR. SCOTT: Let me see the page you're 3 a playing time for you in Cambridge; is that
4 talking about so he can -- 4 correct?
5 MR. SCAROLA: I've given you the entire 5 A. You'd be asking me to speculate. I can't
6 calendar. 6 speculate based on my wife's calendar. It says
7 MR. SCOTT: Come on, Jack. 7 utility bill, Reservoir address. That suggests
8 MR. SCAROLA: I've given you the entire 8 Cambridge. Reservoir is our house in Cambridge.
9 composite -- 9 Q. So, it would appear that this is another
10 THE WITNESS: So you're talking about my 10 massage that you got somewhere?
11 wife's -- 11 A. But I would like to also say one thing. I
12 MR. SCAROLA: Fourth page -- fourth page 12 don't -- I at least wonder were these records
13 of Exhibit 10. You have Exhibit 10, I've given 13 available to your clients at the time they made the
14 a copy of that. 14 false accusations against me or arc they
15 MR. SCOTT: I understand it and he has it 15 after-the-fact constructs designed to simply try to
16 front of him and I'm trying to get him to the 16 find excuses to justify their false allegations? It
17 right page. Thank you. Please take it down. 17 seems to me the latter is probably the case.
18 BY MR. SCAROLA: 18 Q. And you are going to have an opportunity
19 Q. Fourth page, Composite Exhibit 10. 19 through your counsel to ask those questions.
20 A. Yes. 20 A. And we will.
21 Q. Friday, January 12. 21 Q. And my clients are anxious to be able to
22 A. Okay. That's very simple. We were both 22 answer those questions.
23 in Cambridge and I had a massage in Cambridge. How 23 A. Not as anxious as I am to hear their
24 do I know that? Because it had basketball. And 24 answers.
25 that's where I play and watch basketball was in 25 Q. Okay.
326 328
1 Cambridge. So probably I was in Cambridge if it 1 MR. SCOTT: Okay. Let's wrap it up.
2 says B ball 3:30, 4:15 and says Cambridge with Ella, 2 MR. SCAROLA: Not quite.
3 so I'm sure I was in Cambridge. 3 MR. SCOTT: Yeah, it's 12:30. I'm ending
4 Q. All right. So -- 4 this. That gives you three and a half hours.
5 A. But I'm -- I'm looking at my wife's 5 We take a lunch break and then we have three
6 calendar. I can't tell you and nor can you tell me 6 and a half.
7 where I was at that period of time. 7 MR. SCAROLA: We don't need three and a
8 Q. So, the basketball entries are references 8 half hours for lunch.
9 to your watching basketball in Cambridge? 9 MR. SCOTT: No, I didn't say that. I said
10 A. No. They could be playing basketball. I 10 we take an hour break and then we have three
11 played basketball in those days -- 11 and a half hours with your client, just like...
12 Q. Watching or playing basketball? 12 MR. SCAROLA: If -- if that's what you
13 MR. SCOTT: Let him finish his answer, 13 want to do --
14 please. 14 MR. SCOTT: That's the fair thing to do
15 A. I either watched basketball or played 15 because that's why we're dividing it equally
16 basketball, yeah. I did not go to basketball games 16 and I suggested that --
17 in New York, to my recollection, unless the Celtics 17 MR. SCAROLA: I will state -- I will state
18 were in New York and maybe we can check -- 18 for the record that Exhibits 2, 3 and 4 --
19 MR. SCOTT: You've got about five minutes, 19 excuse me, Exhibits 9, 10, 11 and 12,
20 Counsel. 20 composite exhibits, directly conflict with the
21 BY MR. SCAROLA: 21 witness's assertion --
22 Q. The Celtics didn't play from 4:15 to 5:00, 22 MR. SCOT 1: This is all a speech on your
23 did they? 23 part.
24 A. No, but I did. 24 MR. SCAROLA: It is a speech.
25 Q. You did? 25 MR. SCOTT: It is a speech and --
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329 331
1 MR. SCAROLA: I'm giving you notice as to CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
2 what you can do to do your homework. Okay?
3 They directly conflict with the witness's STATE OF FLORIDA
4 assertion that the flight logs exonerate him. COUNTY OF BROWARD
5 In fact --
6 MR. SCOTT: Wait a minute. I, KIMBERLY FONTALVO, Registered
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
1.5
16
17
MR. SCAROLA: -- the flight logs -- the
flight logs corroborate Virginia Roberts'
assertions.
MR. SCOTT: And I thank you very much for
that explanation and we look forward to
resuming this at the appropriate time and
responding to that.
THE WITNESS: And that is a false
statement.
MR. SCOTT: Thank you.
Professional Reporter, do hereby certify that 1
was authorized to and did stenographically report
the foregoing videotape deposition of ALAN M.
DERSHOWITZ; pages through 145; that a review of
the transcript was requested; and that the
transcript is a true record of my stenographic
notes.
I FURTHER CERTIFY that I am not a
relative, employee, attomey, or counsel of any
of the parties, nor am I a relative or employee
of any of the parties' attorneys or counsel
VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record. The
connected with the action, nor am I financially
18 time is approximately 12:26 p.m. interested in the action.
19 (The proceedings ADJOURNED at 12:26 p.m.) Dated this 16th day of October, 2015.
20
21
22 KIMBERLY FONTALVO, RPR, FPR, CLR
23
24
25
CERTIFICATE OF OATH October 16, 2015
330 332
COLE, SCOTT & KISSANE, P.A.
Dadcland Centre II - Suite 1400
STATE OF FLORIDA
9150 South Dadcland Boulevard
Miami, Florida 33156
COUNTY OF BROWARD
BY: THOMAS EMERSON SCOTT, JR., ESQ.
Re: Edwards v. Dcrshowitz
Please take notice that on the 16th day of October,
2015, you gave your deposition in the above cause.
I, the undersigned authority, certify At that time, you did not waive your signature.
that ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ personally appeared
The above-addressed attorney has ordered a copy of
this transcript and will make arrangements with you
before me and was duly sworn on the 16th day of
to read their copy. Please execute the Errata
October, 2015.
Sheet, which can be found at the back of the
Signed this 16th day of October. 2015.
transcript, and have it returned to us for
distribution to all parties.
14.4.i. -44".„4-0-
KIMBERLY FONTAL‘v u, &PR, FPR, CLR
Notary Public, State of Florida
My Commission No. EE 161994
Expires: 2/0 l /16
If you do not read and sign the deposition within a
reasonable amount of time, the original, which has
already been forwarded to the ordering attorney, may
be filed with the Clerk of the Court.
If you wish to waive your signature now, please sign
your name in the blank at the bottom of this letter
and return to the address listed below.
Very truly yours,
KIMBERLY FONTALVO, RPR, FPR, CLR
Phipps Reporting, Inc.
1615 Fon= Place, Suite 500
West Palm Beach, Florida 33401
1 do hereby waive my signature.
ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
www.phippsreporting.com
(888)811-3408
39 (Pages 329 to 332)
333
ERRATA SHEET
DO NOT WRITE ON TRANSCRIPT - ENTER CHANGES HERE
In Re: EDWARDS V. DERSHOWITZ
ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
October 16, 2015
PAGE LINE CHANGE
REASON
Under penalties of perjury, I declare that I have
read the foregoing document and that the facts
slated in it are true.
Date
ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
40 (Page 333)
.phippsreporting.com
(888)811-3408
Exhibit 3
1 APPEARANCES CONTINUED
3
2 Also on behalf of the Defendant:
1
2
IN THE CIRCUIT COURT OF THE SEVENTEENTH
JUDICIAL CIRCUIT IN AND FOR
BROWARD COUNTY, FLORIDA
3 SW EDER & ROSS, LLP
BY: KENNETH A. SW EDER, ESQUIRE
4 131 Oliver Street
3 CASE NO. CACE 15-000072 Boston, Massachusetts 02110
4
5 Tel: 617.646.4466
Fax: 617.646.4470
5 BRADLEY J. EDWARDS and PAUL G. CASSELL, 6 E-mail: ksweder@sweder-ross.com
6
7
Plaintiffs/Counterclaim Defendants,
7
On behalf of the Witness:
vs. 8
8 UTAH ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OFFICE, P.A.
9 ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ,
9 BY: JONI J. JONES, ASSISTANT
ATTORNEY GENERAL, Litigation Division
10 10 160 East 300 South
Defendant/Counterclaim Plaintiff.
Heber Wells Building - 6th Floor
11 / 11 Salt Lake City, Utah 84114
12
12
Tel: 801.366.0100
Fax: 801.366.0101
13 E-mail: jonijones@utah.gov
14 VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
13
15 PAUL G. CASSELL
14 Telephonically on behalf of Jeffrey Epstein:
16 TAKEN ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT 15 DARREN K. I N D Y K E, P L L C
17 VOLUME I, PAGES 1 to 151
16
BY: DARREN K. INDYKE, ESQUIRE
575 Lexington Avenue
18 4th Floor
17 New York, New York 10022
19 Tel: 212.971.1314
20 Friday, October 16, 2015
18
21 1:33 p.m. - 4:31 p.m. 19 Also Present:
22
23
24
110 Southeast 6th Street
110 Tower- Suite 1850
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
20
21
DON SAVOY, Videographer
BRADLEY J. EDWARDS
ALAN M. DERSHOWITZ
CAROLYN COHEN
22
25 Theresa Tomasel I i , RMR
23
24
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS
25
(954) 331 -4400 ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SOLUTIONS
(954) 331-4400
2 4
1 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL 1 INDEX OF EXAMINATION
2
On behalf of the Plaintiffs:
2 WITNESS PAGE
3
SEARCY DENNEY SCAROLA
3 PAUL G. CASSELL
4
5
BARNHART & SHIPLEY, P.A.
BY: JOHN SCAROLA, ESQUIRE
2 1 3 9 Palm Beach Lakes Boulevard
4 DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MR. SIMPSON
6
West Palm Beach, Florida 33409 5
6 Tel: 561.686.6300
Fax: 561.383.9541 6
7 E-mail: mep@searcylaw.com INDEX TO EXHIBITS
7
8
0 n behalf of Virginia Roberts: 8 EXHIBIT DESCRIPTION PAGE
9
10
11
12
BOIES, SCH ILLER & FLEXN ER, LLP
BY: SIGRID STONE McCAW LEY, ESQUIRE
401 East Las 0 las Boulevard
Suite 1200
Fort Lauderdale, Florida 33301
Tel: 954.356.0011
9
10
11
Cassell I.D. Exhibit No. 1 - Plaintiff's 21
Response to Motion for Limited Intervention
by Alan M. Dershowitz
Fax: 954.356.0022 Cassell I.D. Exhibit No. 2 - Jane Doe 22
13 E-mail: sm ccawley@ bsfIlp.com 12 Number 3 and Jane Doe Number 4's Motion
Pursuant to Rule 21 for Joinder in Action
14 13
On behalf of the Defendant: Cassell I.D. Exhibit No. 3 - one-page 106
15 14 document produced by the witness
WILEY REIN LLP
16 BY: RICHARD A. SIMPSON, ESQUIRE
AND: NICOLE A. RICHARDSON, ESQUIRE
15
17 1776 K Street Northwest
Washington, DC 20006
16
18 Tel: 202.719.7000
Fax: 202.719.7049 17
19 E-m ail: rsim pson@ w ileyrein.com
18
20
Also on behalf of the Defendant: 19
21
22
23
24
25
COLE, SCOTT & KISSANE, P.A.
BY: THOMAS EMERSON SCOTT, JR., ESQUIRE
9150 South Dadeland Boulevard
Dadeland Centre II - Suite 1400
Miami, Florida 33156
Tel: 305.350.5329
Fax: 305.373.2294
E-mail: thomas.scott@csklegal.com
20
21
22
23
24
25
(Original Exhibits have been attached to the
original transcript.)
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0110:55 1 Q. I would like to know why you alleged "and 01:12:55 1 was your basis for this?
01:10:57 2 other minors" given what you have said about your 01:12:56 2 A. All right. So the initial basis for it
01:11:01 3 knowledge of the factual basis, so to speak, for that 01:1100 3 was --
01,11:06 4 allegation. 01:1100 4 MR. SCAROLA: First of all, let me object
0111:06 5 A. Okay. There are going to be -- I'm going to 01:1102 5 because Professor Cassell is not here as an
01:11:08 6 end up giving you nine reasons, each of which is 01:13:04 6 expert witness and hypotheticals are
01:11:11 7 complicated, so I just want to -- if -- if -- I don't 01:1106 7 inappropriate. You're calling for speculation on
01:11:13 8 want to be accused of -- of filibustering or anything. 01:1108 8 his part. I'm not going to instruct him not to
01:11:15 9 I just want you to know that you have asked a broad 01:13:10 9 answer, but it is an improper question.
01:11:18 10 question that's going to require a broad and extended 01:1314 10 MR. SIMPSON: I disagree, but you can answer
01:11:20 11 answer. It -- it -- 01:13:14 11 the question.
01:11:21 12 Q. Answer the question. 01:13:14 12 THE WITNESS: Right. So the -- the factual
011122 13 A. Okay. Then I'm going to refer to a -- I have 01:13.17 13 basis would -- we are setting aside
01:11:27 14 a -- well, actually, I don't. 01:13:21 14 attorney/client communications, right?
01:11:28 15 Q. Let me ask you this: Before you refer to 01:13:21 15 BY MR. SIMPSON:
01:11:30 16 something -- 01:13:22 16 Q. I'm asking: What would you tell the judge?
01:11:30 17 A. Yeah. 01:13:2617 A. Right. So that -- I -- I -- that's
01:11:30 18 Q. -- please give me your best recollection of 01.112818 speculative to -- I don't think I can give a fair answer
01:1134 19 what the basis was, the factual basis that you had in 01:13:30 19 at this point because that would have involved going
01:11:37 20 mind. If the court said to you -- let me put it this 01:113220 back to my client and -- and carving out what kinds
01:11:40 21 way. If you went to court and Judge Marra said, 01:1136 21 of things we were going to present to Judge Marra in
01.11:43 22 Professor Cassell, what's your factual basis for this 01:13:30 22 light of the posture of the case at that point.
01:11:46 23 allegation? Tell me. What would you say? 0113,42 23 So it's a speculative question. I would
01:11:48 24 A. Right. 01:1145 24 have -- let me just -- without going into any
01:11:49 25 MS. McCAWLEY: Wait. Outside the context of 01:1348 25 attorney/client privileged communications, I would have
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01:11:50 1 anything that's been communicated to you. 01:13:51 1 provided an ample factual basis for those allegations.
01:11:53 2 MR. SCAROLA: Excuse me. You have asked two 01:13:55 2 MR. SIMPSON: I move to strike as
01:11:55 3 different questions now, and I need to understand 01:1156 3 nonresponsive.
01:11:56 4 which question you are asking. 01:13,56 4 BY MR. SIMPSON:
01:1158 5 The question that you posed before just now 01:13:58 5 Q. Let me ask it this way: We have talked
01:12:02 6 was: What was the reason for your including 01:14'00 6 about -- somewhat about the basis for this allegation
01:12:06 7 those allegations in this pleading? 01:14.02 7 about other minors. Putting aside information as to
01.12:08 8 Now you have asked: What is the factual 01:14:09 8 which you're claiming privilege, tell me what you knew
01:12:10 9 basis? And that's going back to questions that 01:14:13 9 as of December 30th, 2014, that formed the factual basis
01:12:14 10 we have already covered, and we have, I think, 01:14:20 10 for your -- for that allegation about other minors.
01'12:17 11 exhausted the ability to respond to that question 01:14:23 11 MR. SCAROLA: And I'll instruct you not to
01:12:20 12 outside of privileged information. 01:14:25 12 answer that question for the same reason, that
01:1213 13 Do you want to go back to the question about: 01:14:27 13 when the same question was asked earlier, I
01:12:26 14 What was your reason for including those 01:14:29 14 instructed you not to answer.
01:12:28 15 allegations? 01:1411 15 MR. SIMPSON: I'm -- I'm -- maybe we are not
01:12:29 16 MR. SIMPSON: I'll ask the question a 01:14:33 16 being clear, Jack. I'm asking him to put
01:1210 17 different way. 01:14:35 17 aside -- I mean, certainly, he -- he filed a
01:12:31 18 MR. SCAROLA: Thank you. 01:14:37 18 pleading. You've asserted privilege as to
01:12:31 19 BY MR. SIMPSON: 01:14:40 19 certain aspects. I'm simply asking him, putting