1 00:00:00,600 --> 00:00:03,400 Mr. Schröder, you know 2 00:00:03,400 --> 00:00:05,720 Vladimir Putin very well. 3 00:00:05,720 --> 00:00:08,600 Maybe you are even with him friends. 4 00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:13,360 Understand now in this situation still his thoughts, his motifs? 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:16,040 Do you still understand what drives him? Now? 6 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,240 I think I imagine can do what drives him even though I 7 00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:21,600 could not talk to him. 8 00:00:21,600 --> 00:00:25,480 I was in Sochi But there he was busy. 9 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:27,520 And certainly not over. 10 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,600 That was still Before this situation in Ukraine. 11 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:33,920 I think he is interested in it 12 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,480 is to consolidate Russia, 13 00:00:37,560 --> 00:00:39,480 To develop Russia economically. 14 00:00:39,480 --> 00:00:41,600 But to keep big and strong. 15 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,760 That he believes that Russia 16 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:49,200 act politically at the same eye level should. 17 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,200 With the United States of America, And that he 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:55,440 As someone who thinks historically, 19 00:00:55,560 --> 00:00:59,120 also certain circuits, fears 20 00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:02,040 are quite present with him. 21 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,320 When the development Take a look at, 22 00:01:05,400 --> 00:01:09,680 The in the past ten or 15 years has taken place 23 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:14,440 Then it was clear that after the case of the iron curtain and integration 24 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:19,600 the former Warsaw Pact states in the EU and NATO 25 00:01:19,680 --> 00:01:23,160 was clear, that the Russia had to accept. 26 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,480 That has no question. 27 00:01:25,480 --> 00:01:29,320 It wasn't about accepting And it was about respect 28 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:31,160 The will of this peoples. 29 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:32,760 And we all have a bunch of it 30 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:36,520 contributed, that that was in the EU and NATO. 31 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:40,360 Then of course came to the edges 32 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:41,800 the Russian 33 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:45,720 Federation developments, that were certainly not suitable 34 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,160 to trigger only joy with the Russians. 35 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,520 So the circle, fears. 36 00:01:51,520 --> 00:01:56,440 You can see that, especially in Georgia, but also in other areas. 37 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,520 That will employ him. No question at all. 38 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:02,160 Whether then the funds that are used 39 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,600 The right ones are I would also doubt that. 40 00:02:05,680 --> 00:02:09,280 Only the problem Whatever you see too 41 00:02:09,280 --> 00:02:12,280 need to To the current questions is 42 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:16,240 Where are the causes of the help For the crisis? 43 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:22,240 It was really right to go and Ukraine a cultural 44 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:23,400 split land? 45 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:26,600 You have to counter all the mainstream can say. 46 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,800 A culturally split the country namely 47 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,800 in the west, one rather 48 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,200 Europe -oriented, European oriented population, 49 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:40,120 the one in large parts is nationalistic. 50 00:02:40,120 --> 00:02:43,480 That in what you can also see in the language dispute 51 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,160 And in the east and in the south, especially in the Crimea, 52 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:50,160 a traditional Russian 53 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:54,640 thinking and feeling population, At least a majority of the population. 54 00:02:54,720 --> 00:02:59,680 It was correct that the EU says We introduce you to the alternative 55 00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:03,720 Either association in the EU or 56 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:08,160 Participation in the customs union of the GDR, Russian Federation 57 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:11,880 to build with others able and is ready. 58 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:16,840 And I think that the EU in the face of the 59 00:03:16,920 --> 00:03:18,840 the division of cultural division 60 00:03:18,840 --> 00:03:24,680 I'm not talking about constitutional law now the cultural division of Ukraine, 61 00:03:24,760 --> 00:03:29,280 This either or not should have formulated, but there 62 00:03:29,280 --> 00:03:33,080 would have been a lot more sensible A both and. 63 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:35,600 I'm going to say so far 64 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:40,800 the cooperation contract, which the EU wanted to negotiate with Russia 65 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,880 And the old one Should replace cooperation contract. 66 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:49,880 It would have been better if you over Association would have negotiated with both, 67 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:53,880 About association with Russia Just like with Ukraine. 68 00:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,120 You would have many stumbling blocks did not have. 69 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:01,480 And perspective For European interests 70 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:04,840 I have always been concerned with a question 71 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:09,280 If you take a look at me What we are currently doing 72 00:04:09,360 --> 00:04:13,840 Have Poland in the world, then they have A recessed America. 73 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:17,520 And I go from a recovering strong also economically strengthened America. 74 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:21,240 And they have Asia Under the leadership of China. 75 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,480 You just have to go out of that. 76 00:04:23,480 --> 00:04:28,080 And they have a Europe that doesn't know how it should be. 77 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:32,000 And it can only set up To be at the same eye level 78 00:04:32,000 --> 00:04:35,920 With these two poles to act politically and economically, 79 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,120 if it becomes more integrative. 80 00:04:38,120 --> 00:04:40,000 So if we get more Europe. 81 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:44,240 And secondly, If we do one when we make it 82 00:04:44,320 --> 00:04:46,800 With all difficulties which is currently in Turkey 83 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:48,120 also gives Turkey as 84 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,160 To win a member of the EU as a bridge into the Arabic, into the Islamic world 85 00:04:52,160 --> 00:04:55,320 and an association with Russia get down, 86 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:58,320 That is the perspective that busy me. 87 00:04:58,440 --> 00:05:02,560 And this perspective In any case, I arrange mentally 88 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:06,480 the below what I am currently On the situation in Ukraine. 89 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,520 Let's say a few problems with With this analysis. 90 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:13,840 So, Kissinger joked, in the 19th century 91 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:18,640 has circled itself, Russia expanded to Belgium every day. 92 00:05:18,720 --> 00:05:19,280 So this one 93 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,800 Investment already has a certain one, The circling 94 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,960 in quotation already have a habit, 95 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:30,560 then relatively expansive, if not aggressive. 96 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:34,720 The second problem is that this Putin's Russia yes 97 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,000 No wish at all 98 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,400 or did not express any urging, to associate yourself with the EU, 99 00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:44,480 but he has on the contrary So classic power policy of the 19th 100 00:05:44,480 --> 00:05:49,680 Century probe a bit here, because gain spheres of influence, 101 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:50,880 guided. 102 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:55,440 And therefore I don't quite see this lever. 103 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,200 But even if this analysis I am not entirely correct. 104 00:05:59,280 --> 00:06:02,240 That doesn't justify that yet The means that starts, right? 105 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,760 Nobody says that either. 106 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:08,880 I just think about it that it is not enough to judge. 107 00:06:08,960 --> 00:06:14,520 Naturally Is what happens in the Crimea 108 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:19,000 something is also a violation of international law. 109 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:20,600 But you know 110 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:24,800 Why I'm a little more careful With the raised index finger? 111 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:28,960 I want that to you right now In such an event, say 112 00:06:29,040 --> 00:06:31,520 Because I did it myself. 113 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:33,920 What do you have. Made violate international law? 114 00:06:33,920 --> 00:06:36,200 We arranged. No I have not. 115 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:36,720 We have. 116 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:37,080 A small. 117 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,000 Leave Belgium. 118 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:43,000 Just. Do what it really is about. 119 00:06:43,240 --> 00:06:46,200 When it comes to the question, went 120 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:49,560 How does that develop in the republic Yugoslavia? 121 00:06:49,640 --> 00:06:53,760 Kosovo ranks we have our planes, 122 00:06:53,840 --> 00:06:56,840 sent our tornados to Serbia, 123 00:06:56,880 --> 00:07:01,960 And they have one together with NATO sovereign state bombed 124 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:05,320 Without it Security Council would have given a decision. 125 00:07:05,400 --> 00:07:08,160 Oh well. 126 00:07:08,160 --> 00:07:10,560 Without the security council Decision given. 127 00:07:10,560 --> 00:07:14,920 That was just like that and my predecessor Did that also criticize this, 128 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:16,440 which is not very far away either 129 00:07:16,440 --> 00:07:20,600 From what your newspaper does, criticized that sharply. 130 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:22,960 Helmut, of course. 131 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:27,240 He said that without security Decision does not work. 132 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,000 At the time. And formally he is right. 133 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:34,080 I still stand by Because I still have in mind 134 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:38,040 The refugee flows and that, What threatens, there is no question. 135 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:42,640 Formally, but without a security council decision, 136 00:07:42,720 --> 00:07:45,240 A warrior To conduct discussion, 137 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:47,040 was a violation of international law. 138 00:07:47,040 --> 00:07:49,840 Even if Mr. Joffe. 139 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:53,320 I heard little about criticism. 140 00:07:53,400 --> 00:07:55,520 When it was in Iraq 141 00:07:55,520 --> 00:07:58,720 That was so, and I'm afraid 142 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:00,600 And that shouldn't justify that 143 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:04,120 should just explain why I myself 144 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:08,960 With the raised index finger I'm more careful than others. 145 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,600 Because I am this situation And also the difficulties 146 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,880 The I then Had my own position 147 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,960 And still have I didn't forget that. 148 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:19,520 But. 149 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,480 But may I with mine register some submissive undertone, 150 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:26,440 that the situation is not 151 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,280 is comparable, 152 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:32,280 We were right at the time. 153 00:08:32,280 --> 00:08:36,320 We say without a decision A country attacked, 154 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:41,400 But for humanitarian reasons, as they are described themselves 155 00:08:41,480 --> 00:08:44,120 and that has the humanitarian duty. 156 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:49,880 In that case, at least so could be argued, international law, 157 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:53,680 About the above international law, triumphs on international law. 158 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:56,800 There was here no minority worthy of protection, 159 00:08:56,800 --> 00:08:58,880 The only one that is protected. 160 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:02,040 I would say that Because you when you 161 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:06,440 If you discuss this on one level, As we sit here, see it. 162 00:09:06,440 --> 00:09:10,240 But whether the affected people see it that way is a completely different question. 163 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:14,200 You rely on that, on that we call ourselves at the time. 164 00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,160 The calling I don't think it is valid. 165 00:09:16,160 --> 00:09:20,040 You don't have to assume that But that's exactly. 166 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:24,160 I think that What we are currently experiencing in the Crimea, 167 00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:29,520 that the blueprint is Kosovo, And in two ways. 168 00:09:29,600 --> 00:09:30,760 In me. 169 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:32,160 I want something. Justify. 170 00:09:32,160 --> 00:09:33,520 Once 171 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,240 I don't say there either and bring myself But not in a situation. 172 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:37,320 I see again then 173 00:09:37,320 --> 00:09:42,640 The headline is the point of the matter The same situation. 174 00:09:42,720 --> 00:09:46,120 But I also tell you that If you are the argument 175 00:09:46,120 --> 00:09:49,200 Listen, it At least cannot be doubted. 176 00:09:49,200 --> 00:09:53,280 And that makes my caution in dealing with With the raised index finger, 177 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:57,040 that formally in both cases against 178 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:58,880 the charter has been violated. 179 00:09:58,880 --> 00:10:02,840 That was just like that We only had a justification 180 00:10:02,920 --> 00:10:06,760 A comment from the Secretary General the United Nations, the back then 181 00:10:06,840 --> 00:10:11,320 And that was not after the judgment not sufficient. 182 00:10:11,320 --> 00:10:12,720 And the fact 183 00:10:12,720 --> 00:10:17,560 that it was occasionally said That is the first humanitarian commitment, 184 00:10:17,640 --> 00:10:20,400 who had been done was something that 185 00:10:20,400 --> 00:10:24,480 According to the predominant opinion at least doubtful in international law. 186 00:10:24,480 --> 00:10:26,200 We still used it no question at all. 187 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:30,160 But please understand that then in the face of that 188 00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,720 Given my own actions that understands that for 189 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:37,000 I am still a situation where I am more careful. 190 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:41,200 I just wish that then also colleague Putin. 191 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:41,640 I would. 192 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,600 Careful how you argue now, Because in the case of Syria, 193 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:49,880 Where it was really humanitarian disaster and remains strictly pro 194 00:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,240 International law, we are not allowed. 195 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:52,560 No intervention. 196 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,040 And then he turns around and. 197 00:10:55,040 --> 00:10:55,760 I don't know. 198 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:56,600 Whether you. 199 00:10:56,600 --> 00:11:00,400 Doubt whether you are in the Syrian question, If we are already there 200 00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:01,960 really interpret that correctly. 201 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,680 I don't have my own information. 202 00:11:03,680 --> 00:11:08,440 I never talked to him about it But my impression is for his 203 00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,480 his Syrian policy And for those of the Chinese more. 204 00:11:12,560 --> 00:11:16,440 I think you said At the time we have 205 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,880 than about intervention in Libya went, said we won't 206 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:25,120 insert a veto, then is That cannot be denied. 207 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:26,640 I say that very diplomatically. 208 00:11:26,640 --> 00:11:32,800 The Libya resolution overused and the consequence of a 209 00:11:32,880 --> 00:11:35,360 one permanent members of the Security Council 210 00:11:35,360 --> 00:11:38,720 was of course to be said We don't want to experience that again 211 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:42,360 That has something to do with things which I also hardly imagine 212 00:11:42,360 --> 00:11:43,680 can, maybe we are all difficult 213 00:11:43,680 --> 00:11:47,880 can introduce them, but they are, so to speak Self -confidence of P5 members 214 00:11:48,120 --> 00:11:51,520 concerned, so concerned by security council members. 215 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,760 I believe, that that played a role. 216 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:57,400 Nevertheless, I'm not here to justify anything. 217 00:11:57,400 --> 00:12:00,480 I just said, Kosovo could be the blueprint, by the way 218 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:05,320 also in another dimension, namely what the 219 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:10,680 As for the question Referendum or not? 220 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:11,920 What does that mean? 221 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:13,240 What do you mean by that? 222 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:15,600 Well, it is said. 223 00:12:15,600 --> 00:12:20,600 The detriment of the referendum Is problematic under international law 224 00:12:20,680 --> 00:12:23,200 is illegal. 225 00:12:23,200 --> 00:12:26,800 I have a little bit tried to make knowledgeable. 226 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:29,840 In the case of international lawyers. 227 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,760 And I found one who comments on this. 228 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:34,120 There is always one. 229 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:38,920 No, no, so that's special verses international law. 230 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,640 There it says, 231 00:12:41,640 --> 00:12:44,280 The Kosovo was allowed to split off Serbia, 232 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,560 says the International Court of Justice In the Hague. 233 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:49,520 And then it goes on. 234 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,240 However, the judges were smart. 235 00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:53,200 You just said know international law 236 00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:58,000 No prohibition of declaration of independence. 237 00:12:58,080 --> 00:13:01,800 This is the international lawyer Josef Joffe. 26. 238 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:10,080 September 2010. 239 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:11,880 Chapeau that.